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Comments:
<0> The hippies
<1> discotaco: um russia never achieved communism
<1> they failed
<0> Heaven is communism isn't it?
<2> And noone hates dissenters like the leftwing.. Check out the new foung hatred for hILLARY ON the Dailykos
<0> The xtian view of it
<2> and some other even more far left blog
<3> Gnar: It's a horrifically flawed theory, and as much as you want to believe that it has never been achieved, the numerous attempts to achieve it have led to the logical conclusion of ungodly human misery.
<1> and freetrade you're talking about features of an economy under these states. im talking about the driving force behind these movements
<1> discotaco: im not an advocate of it. im just telling you what their aims are.
<1> communists want ZERO state
<2> Gnar, do you even know who marx was, How he lived ? What his lifestyle was like ? And what his philosophy of Politics was ? And its influences ?
<1> freetrade: why do you have to be a snob?
<1> just talk normal or we can stop talking altogether
<1> im tired of being insulted with your snobbish attitude. enoughs enough
<0> Everyone is equal and everyone only needs one apple a year...is that tantamount to communism?
<3> Gnar: And I'm telling you what the net outcome has been and that Communist "theory" is a steaming pile of horse ****, and that furthermore, you don't get to claim that attempts to ACHIEVE communism are not leftist because they didn't succeed.
<2> Gnar, You speak of things as if you are an authority I am just asking if you even know what the goals of communism were and what type of person its Author was.
<1> discoteco: i said they were leftist
<1> and all i said is what one of their goals were
<1> i never advocated it or said it was possible
<2> Well you can look at results, and wherever communist has been tried we have tyranny and usually m*** murder.
<1> im very far to the right myself
<3> You're also dreadfully naive if you believe that communists want "ZERO" state. What they want is a state that THEY are in charge of.
<1> so dont worry
<1> discotaco: you're wrong
<2> What did Pol Pot say ? He said his goal was to create the perfect socialism man, and in trying to do so he murdered at least 2 million imperfect socialists
<1> the russian commissars wanted to keep their power sure
<2> first the population and then his own army
<0> free: Thats because they see what others in the world have
<1> but marx's theory was for a stateless sysem
<2> Free, What is ?
<0> I mean...its a world...not a country
<1> freetrade: so you dont think true communism means no state, no property, no borders?
<0> Communist countries...their people see us eating fried cheese without jobs and they want that too
<2> Marxs theory in its final evolution woudl result in the vanishment of the state and perfect order and copperation between people. Do you believe such hogwash ?
<1> there are no "communist countries"
<3> Gnar: No, I'm not wrong. Every single time the banner of Communism is flown, those who advocated for it become masters of the state and use its power to crush people. Don't tell me I'm wrong when history has borne out this FACT dozens of times over.
<1> only socialist ones
<2> If I have tons of prime meat, beer, wine, I am going to share it with all the people ?
<1> discotaco: that isnt communism. its soicalism
<0> Communism *needs* 100% communism
<2> Hell no I would hide it in my basment and reserve it for me and my family and friends.
<1> vemod is right
<1> Russian "communists" werent communists at all. they were socialists
<2> 100% communism is like 100% anything in politics other than murder, impossible.
<2> No You dont know Marx
<1> russian economy was planned by the state
<2> Marx said they must go through a Socialist stage
<1> freetrade: no you dont know him
<2> So they were right on target
<1> yep
<1> i agree
<1> but they never hit that target
<1> thats the whole ****ing point
<2> No you just said I dont know him
<1> dude you're arguing with me on **** i agree with you on
<1> let it go you snob
<3> Gnar: You can make all the distinctions you wish. The active pursuit of Communism ALWAYS results in horrifically repressive states. ALWAYS. So don't tell me I'm wrong or that these states aren't "true Communism" because this is ALWAYS what the pursuit of so-called "true Communism" leads to. ALWAYS.
<2> Well I have read his biography a book by a professor whose dissertation was on Marx, and I have bored my self to death trying to slog my way through to the end of Das Kapital.
<4> Abusive Domain or User
<1> discotaco: the pursuit maybe. true communism has never been realized
<5> gnar likes to argue semantics
<3> *sigh*
<1> freetrade: i dont give a **** what you've read
<3> Grow up, child.
<1> discotaco: you grow up you idiot
<2> the problem is his theory was flawed both in method as proven by von Hayak and by Wittgenstein (The socialist intellectual)
<6> ah, another mature converstaion takes place
<1> freetrade just repeated my point discotaco
<1> and he's still arguing with me after speaking it himself
<3> Actually, I think he just repeated mine.
<1> actually he didnt
<1> i never said communism is right or wrong
<2> And his ideology is utopian you might as well be describing the garden of Eden when you describe the final stages of communism when "the state withers away"
<1> all i said is true communism requires no state
<2> Tell me something Do you find this ideal ?
<2> I wouldnt like this utopia
<3> Actually, he did. But since you refuse to acknowledge simple basic reality, I don't see that we have anything left to discuss.
<1> according to what communists believe
<2> I like some competition and I like variety and I like social mobility
<1> discotaco: you're an idiot. let us talk now
<1> freetrade: i do too
<2> I love trading with people
<1> im not a ****ing communist
<3> Gnar: **** you in the ear. Let us not.
<2> I love capitalism
<1> yay for you
<1> the whole point of the argument has nothing to do with the merits of any system
<2> Gnar, you resort again to ad hom and anger, why are you so angry
<1> you basically said true communism doesnt aim for zero state
<1> im saying you're wrong
<1> freetrade: cause you're debating **** i never even said
<1> just answer me this
<1> without telling me how many ****ing books you read
<2> Will you read the book I told you about ? Will you read a book on Marx ? Will you consider what I posted about what von Mises thought.
<0> I really hate terminology. To me, if you live and vote in a democracy you are a democrat
<2> Official utterances abound claiming that Nazism stood firmly on the left, that it represented an ideology that was democratic and republican, socialist and anti-aristocratic. He called himself an "arch-democrat," national democracy the "most genuine democracy," and the nazi constitution "truly democratic".
<1> "Does communism aim to have zero state, zero property"? true communism
<1> nazism was extremely far right
<0> Peoples opinions just vary
<1> regardless of some attributes of the economy
<2> in 1941 a lot of intellectuals in europe called nazism leftist
<1> will you read a word i ****ing say?
<2> It wasnt until after the war that it started to be termed rightist.
<1> or will you continue to babble on with your bull****?
<2> and that had a large influence from Stalin
<1> and you called me close minded earlier
<1> you're sitting here talking to yourself
<1> and ignoring the whole point of the argument
<3> We noticed.
<1> DOES COMMUNISM STRIVE FOR ZERO STATE YES OR NO?
<1> communism in THEORY
<1> not some power mad socialists
<1> but the theory of it
<2> No Im educated in these matters you are speaking from your gut or you could debate me, I will continue to debate based on ideas and theories and facts and so forth you can debate from your emotions and "beliefs"
<1> so you cant answer
<1> you'll just babble on your bull****
<1> k. thanks
<2> No it doesnt in practice
<3> right then. bye!
<1> freetrade: i said in theory
<1> and i capitalized it just for you
<2> I dont not strive for - state
<1> are you going to babble on or concede that i was right on this?
<3> Theory that cannot be practiced is not valid theory. So Communist "theory" is bollocks on stilts.
<2> it ends up as a total state whats the term I am looking for besides tyranny
<1> discotaco: maybe so
<1> im not a communist.
<2> An oligarchy where the privelaged few absolutely control the m***es of people
<1> i just know what true communist theory strives for
<2> that what communist results in.
<3> Not "maybe so." The last 100 years has borne that FACT out again and again.
<1> discotaco: yeah and?
<1> thats irrelevant to the point i made
<1> you dunderheads seem to miss it
<2> You see how can you say a dandy lion seed when sewn doesnt produce a dandy lion but instead it produces a beautiful rose ?
<1> ive articulated it three different ways
<1> wtf are you babbling about now?
<2> Well every single time the seed of communism wwas planted it grew into tryanny
<2> and usually m*** murder of its own citizens.
<3> Gnar: and therefore, theory that cannot be practiced is not valid theory. So Communist "theory" is bollocks on stilts. What's more, communist advocates know this. Unless they're young and stupid.
<1> we're talking about communist theory and its aims
<2> So it is what it is..
<1> not what happened in socialist countries
<2> A dandelion seed becomes a dandelion
<1> so quit babbling on about that
<1> lol
<2> Communism because a tyrannical dictatorship where the privelages few leave the m***es in abject poverty
<1> discotaco: maybe its bollocks, maybe it isnt. we havent seen true communism yet to know
<2> and it never gets beyond that state
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