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Comments:
<0> A noun
<0> 1 libertine, debauchee, rounder
<0> a dissolute person; usually a man who is morally unrestrained
<1> schiros: in other words you give up?
<2> FT: i prefer "one free from restraint, particularly from social and religious norms and morals."
<3> Gnar: sure dude
<1> you only fail if you quit. so you're a failure
<1> thanks..
<0> libertine (lib'?r-ten')
<0> n.
<0> One who acts without moral restraint; a dissolute person.
<0> 3 different sources
<2> FT: the difference in our definitions is; I list the action the freedom itself which can produce the negative views of the acts made by the definition you listed.
<0> Libertine I think you are probably from the more obscure and rarely used 2nd or 3rd definiton of Libertine which means Free Thinker but to not confuse people sense the first meaning is what I posted I would probably refer to myself as a free thinker rather a libertine
<2> FT: eh; I'd rather not get into my *** life :P
<0> Libertine, I appreciate that definition and that type of intellect actually but the fact is the first thing educated people will think is that Libertine means ***ually unrestrained.
<2> we can just lave it as 'free thinker' .. beats 'pig ****er' or worse :0
<2> hahah
<0> And that doesnt do Justice to who you are and what you believe because I think you and I have a lot in common actually.
<2> lave/leave, typo
<1> who cares what libertine means. its irrelevant
<1> just like the libertarian party
<2> the libertarian party is not irrelevant; ... now the anti-mason party that is irrelevant :0
<4> Goddamn I love Summer break. :)
<0> Gnar, So now definitions are irrelevant they sure were relevant when I informed you that nazism was a leftist form of revolutionary government.
<5> FreeTrade: either that or druggies.
<2> heheh
<5> FreeTrade: or ***ually unrestrained druggies.
<0> Disco, The term ? yes.
<0> And I dont think Libertine is really that way. I think he is a Libertarian and a person who thinks a lot.
<1> libertine: libertarian party has about as much influence as a fart in a whirlwind. its the party of liberals who are ashamed to vote democrat
<1> freetrade: you're wrong about nazism
<1> its extreme right wing reactionary movement
<0> Ashamed to vote Democrat ? Oh how I wish people were ashamed to vote democrat.
<0> Gnar, read the book I suggested
<0> challenge your thought
<1> freetrade: ive read more on the third reich than you have
<0> Figure out where the terms came from
<1> challenge your thought
<1> or do you know it all already?
<0> Rightists were monarchists
<2> Gnar: haha.. libertarians ashamed to vote democrat? have you looked at the economic views of the libertarian party? they make the republicans look like socialists.
<1> libertine: ive also looked at their open borders ideas too.
<0> leftists were the anti monarchists, the democrats. The socialists, Conmmunists, Nazis
<1> wrong
<0> Did you know that Hitler said the following.
<0> "National Socialism is socialism in evolution," Hitler insisted, "A socialism in everlasting change" And, He went on to admit,"There is more that unites us with then divides us from bolshevism... above all the genuine revolutionary mentality. I was always aware of this and I have given the order that former Communists should be admitted to the party immediately."
<0> There is more that United us than divides us from the Communists he is saying.
<1> yeah and? the true nature of nazism was extreme reactionary right wing
<0> He is saying convert to Nazism or die
<1> and his deeds with communists were quite different
<0> because we are competitors for ideology which has a lot in common
<1> dude nazis were like the other end of the spectrum when it came to personal liberties
<1> i dont know how you can call them liberal
<1> it defies logic
<0> The most striking resemblence that all of these leftist political ideologies have is the anti individualist component.
<0> the statism
<0> statism is the opposite of individualism
<0> the individual vs the state
<1> sums up nazism for me: Reactionary (or reactionist) is a political epithet typically applied to extreme ideological conservatism, especially that which wishes to return to a real or imagined old order of things, and which is willing to use coercive means to do so.
<0> Individual liberty even under the Monarchs was better than under the first democrats (Nazis, communists, etc)
<1> read what i just pasted
<1> and tell me its not true
<0> Did you know Mussolinis father was a Life long socialist ?
<1> did you know mussolini was a right wing fascist?
<0> And that Mussoline kept a lot of ties to socialists until his death /
<1> maybe so. the fascist movement was still right wing
<0> Gnar thats a easy thing to say but have you ever questioned where that definiton could be wrong ?
<5> The "true nature" of Nazism was economic obedience and suberviance to the state. The only thing that separated Nazism from standard practical socialism was nationalism versus internationalism -- though even that distinction is lost in the fact that Nazism intended to conquer all of Europe.
<0> Have you EVER questioned it within yourself ?
<0> Or did you accept it along with the rest of your indoctrination.
<1> freetrade: you're regurgitating theoretical books.
<0> Oh dont feel bad, all of us are indoctrinated.
<1> sigh
<1> next you'll tell me communists are conservative
<6> So how does all this genre-sizing work again?
<1> your ideas defy logic man
<2>
<2>
<0> The question is whether we are willing to question our indoctrination and really to think for ourselves and put to test that which we "believe" in .
<6> Left, Right, Middle...Democrat, Republican, Socialist?
<0> if we put it to the test and then decide we still believe in it, at least we know its you and not your daddy or your professor we are talking to.
<1> freetrade: you act like you're an origianl thinker
<1> youve just read different books you regurgitate
<0> No question we are all indoctrinated.
<0> Gnar, no I read and I think a lot.
<1> you still wont get me to admit nazism isnt right wing
<0> I contemplate what I read all the time.
<1> and communism isnt left wing
<0> I question it, I look it from different angles.
<1> oh im sorry you contemplate it before you regurgitate it
<1> and that makes you original
<5> There was very little about the fascist movement that was "right wing." The only aspect that could be considered right-wing was its intense nationalism, and again, the Nazi brand of nationalism sought to expand itself across multiple nations.
<1> discotaco: how about the descrution of all personal liberties?
<0> I read a fiction series of books which really made me look at ww2 in a different way and it was fiction and it was science fiction and alternative history.
<5> So it was a peculiar form of international nationalism.
<1> it was nationalist and right wing
<1> it wanted to return germany to a desired former state
<0> Its called "worldwar" and its 4 volumns by Harry turtledove.
<1> it was reactionary
<5> Gnar: leftist ideologies have no qualms whatsoever about the destruction of personal liberties.
<1> discotaco: true communism there is no state
<0> God I wish I read as much today as I did then, Well i do but i read so much on the internet and not enough books, I read that series maybe 2 years ago.
<1> freetrade: i love reading about ww2
<6> Nazi's were soldier's under Hitler's command...I thought?
<1> it fascinates me
<1> veomd: they were also members of the party
<6> soldiers
<0> Here what von Mises thought about it, and I dont ask you to accept it on faith, i ask you to think about it.
<6> Well yeah
<7> clearly whoever has thought about this matter for longer is factually correct.
<5> Gnar: "true" communism is a myth whose pursuit has repeated led to nothing short of the thorough destruction of personal liberties.
<7> FreeTrade, Gnar: could you give me some kind of estimate of how much time you have mentally contemplated the issue?
<5> Soviet Union: destruction of personal liberties.
<5> Cuba: destruction of personal liberties.
<1> discotaco: russia was socialist not communist
<5> Vietnam: destruction of personal liberties.
<1> toxyc: which issue?
<5> Cambodia: destruction of personal liberties.
<5> China: destruction of personal liberties.
<7> The issue of Nazism being right-wing.
<1> discotaco: all socialist states
<6> The KKK don't call themselves Nazi's...although they may be nazi sympathizers
<1> true communism there is no state
<1> Communism is a political ideology that seeks to establish a future cl***less, stateless social organization based upon common ownership of the means of production.
<0> The economic order under the National Socialists was thoroughly socialistic. And this although German manufacturers and other entrpreneurs continued in their positions. (the same anamoly occurred in Mao's China where the "patriotic capitalists" retained jobs for which they had the experience and the qualifications.) German Entrepreneurs became mere stewards in a planned economy; they worked for a totalitarian state that admitted
<0> In explanation, Ludwig von Mises pointed out that, in the end, the entrepreneurs preferred being reduced to the status of shop managers by the National Socialists rather then to be "liquidated" by the Communists.
<0> did that all paste ?
<5> Gnar: Then there is no such thing as "true" communism.
<8> Disrespect
<5> FreeTrade: first paste cut off at "state that admitted...."
<1> discotaco: there is. it just hasnt been achieved
<1> unless you count those hippie communes in the 60s
<9> Is libertarianism more far right than fascism?
<1> evoke: no
<1> libertarianism is jerking off
<0> they worked for a totalitarian state that admitted neither genuine private property nor individual decisions.
<0> [23:39] <0> In explanation, Ludwig von Mises pointed out that, in the end, the entrepreneurs preferred being reduced to the status of shop managers by the National Socialists rather then to be "liquidated" by the Communists.
<1> its basically anarchy
<9> cl***ic liberalism
<0> Gnar you are so angry and closed minded are you threatened by these other ideas ?
<5> Gnar: I am going to guess that you don't even recognize the inherent contradiction in your claim that true communism exists but hasn't been achieved.
<6> There are still hippie communes ;)
<1> what? i was talking about libertarianism
<0> von MIses escaped the Nazis by about 1 day
<5> "True communism exists, it just doesn't and never has existed."
<1> discotaco: true communism is a theory
<0> "If one abolishes man's freedom to determine his own consumption, one takes all freedoms away. The naive advocates of government interference with consumption delude themselves when they neglect what they disdainfully call the philosophical aspect of the problem. They unwittingly support the case of censorship, inquisition, religious intolerance, and the persecution of dissenters." -- von Mises
<6> What are they? Seperatists?
<6> The hippies
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