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Comments:
<0> So I was just going to stop.
<0> People are sworn, paid and their actions are reviewed to enforce the rules.
<1> OcDoc: It'll be 1 am before you know it...
<0> Talk about taking money away when someone loses their job for not following the written law or enforcing written laws.
<2> sintient: the ultimate point is that trying to get congress to enforce laws, even if you can get them to p*** them, against themselves will ultimately increase the political motives and decrease the effect of the purpose of the laws
<0> Congress doesn't enforce laws.
<3> hrm.. i often wonder... since laws can immoral; does that mean the enforcer is immoral for upholding the law?
<2> MrRod: I know nothing of time
<0> Well they investigate each other.
<3> can be immoral; typo
<2> sintient: that's the way it's supposed to work so far ...
<2> Libertine: depends
<2> sintient: the separation of powers limits enforcement of laws on the congress by the executive branch
<0> But if they put it on the books that less money is allowed to be given or that they can't send federal dollars to a certain district as part of another bill ala no earmarks then they would enforce that.
<2> sintient: do you imagine the president will send marshals to the congress for failing to wait 24 hours?
<2> for example?
<0> But if they were taking money illegally or taking it for a specific reason, payola, there are investigators or look into, fbi.
<3> i suppose the most extreme example is soldiers 'just following orders'; tho that did not cut durring the numerberg trials...
<3> did not cut it; typo
<0> I think that breaking a law would have a penalty.
<2> sintient: yes, and violation of those laws that are already on the books leads to investigations and slaps on the wrists several years after it's too late to do any good
<0> The speaker or the majority leader that didn't allow 24 hours to bring a bill to a vote would be prosecutable.
<2> campaign violations for example
<1> OcDoc: Yeah. No worries about time until it's Monday morning at 9:30 am and you're in bed and just waking up.
<0> Public opinion is damning.
<2> sintient: and you actually think that will happen? or that it will make any difference?
<2> wow
<2> MrRod: yawn .. okay, you're making me very sleepy ... g'night all
<0> I know that delay resigned because of laws on the book.
<2> laterz guyz and dollz
<0> The threat of being drug through the mud by the other party was enough to get him to resign.
<0> Just being accused of selling his influence was enough to get him to give up all his influence.
<0> Whoops he is gone.
<3> yet Jefferson remains...
<0> That is a weird case.
<0> Jefferson "stole" the "bribe" money.
<3> to be fair; jefferson's scandel is still new.. it needs more time to boil.
<0> He said he bribed a nigerian with it but it was found in his freezer.
<3> heh, Jefferson should claim he the was the victim of a nigerian email scam..
<0> I was jokingly spinning this last week just for fun that he actually prevented a bribe from taking place.
<0> He was just acting to convince the briber to give him the money so that no other congressmen would be put in that situation.
<0> lol
<0> He is toast though.
<3> hrm..
<4> oh **** im beat
<4> 8-9 hours in the yard today
<0> Allah more like Alajandro
<3> thats actually a nice point; do we criminalize people for suggesting they will break the law; before they do it?
<4> neighbors must think im nuts, i was cutting the gr*** at 10:15 pm, and i was BBQ'ing supper at midnight
<0> He took the money and said he was going to or that he already did it.
<0> Maybe there is a crime to solicit.
<0> Or actually maybe he is going to charged with conspiracy to commit a bribe.
<0> I cut the gr*** in the morning actually normally.
<3> the guy he was supposed to bribe is in nigeria tho..
<3> how does foreign law factor?
<0> 7o'clock in the evening isn't so bad either.
<3> maybe bribes are legal there ;)
<5> you cannot do business in nigeria without cash bribes or gifts
<0> He was paid 100k to bring 90k of it to a nigerian to get a certain person a nigerian telecommunications contracct.
<0> Jefferson then said there had to be positions in the company for his kids and that he was going to take 20k.
<0> And then he said that he had already given the money but it was found in his freezer.
<3> hrm.. how would this have impacted his voting?
<0> It wouldn't.
<5> someone I know who's been there on business before said at the very least you should offer a rolex or equiv watch etc.. to those you wish to do business with
<3> hrm..
<5> before they even talk to you
<0> He isn't even indicted yet though.
<0> He just took money that was for a payoff to a nigerian prince.
<3> as much as i'd like to fry Jefferson; im not sure he broke any laws..
<6> what the hell
<0> He did say he was going to bribe a nigerian for a contract for someone.
<1> allan5oh: Got leftovers?
<0> But he didn't do it, but he did take the money for the bribe.
<6> what does 90K in marked FBI bills in his freezer mean to you
<0> He took the money.
<0> HE stole the bribe money.
<6> you guys are insane
<0> I am not the one saying he is fine.
<3> fordnut: what law was broken?
<6> are you serious
<3> actually; yes.
<0> I think it might have been conspiracy to bribe a foreighn offical or something.
<6> this is a joke right
<0> Just tell him.
<6> oh my god
<0> He hasn't been indicted though.
<3> sintient: hrm. yeah a cnspiracy charge is possible; they are pretty vague in general.
<6> an elected official taking money to influence his official duties as a us congressman
<6> wow
<0> He should say he is in the mod squad and he was stinging them.
<6> are you guys liberals?
<6> what do you consider yourselves?
<0> I am the one that said all that.
<3> fordnut: thats just it; the bribe case had nothing to do with his official duties.
<6> oh my word
<6> buddy
<0> um well I wonder if his trip to nigeria was paid for by the US.
<6> if you dont have a problem with your congressman taking cash money and stashing it in a feeezer in a quid pro quo
<3> fordnut: no legislation is/was pending; he was not being bribed for a vote.
<6> my condolences, sir
<6> or sirette
<6> whichever you are
<0> Well that is a point he was being paid to be a briber.
<0> He wasn't actually being bribed.
<6> MY WORD
<3> fordnut: heh; you dont get it; I think Jefferson is a crook; but that that does not mean he is guilty of breaking any laws in this instance.
<6> sigh
<0> I thing he is probly guilty of something.
<6> read the 83 page affidavit for the search warrant
<0> But what he did, was steal bribe money.
<0> He didn't bribe anyone.
<6> both of you two need your right to vote seriously scrutinized
<6> ffs
<0> His influence was purchased though.
<3> heh.. yeah; he's probaly guilty of something; but outside of a trumped up conspiracy charge' i dont think they have much on him.
<0> Ford you are a wank.
<6> i cant believe im reading this
<0> If you think that I have said anything wrong you are just not understanding very well.
<6> youve actually been slightly reasonable sintient
<0> You obviously don't know what you are readng.
<6> this other person however
<0> Oh ok.
<6> is in a different reality
<3> fordnut: why is that?
<6> some kind of parallel universe
<0> Well he is just not sure that conspiracy to commit is a crime is a crime, and he doesn't know if bribery is illegal in nigeria.
<0> They are valid and naive questions.
<0> But easily answered.
<3> conspiracy to commit a crime; is a crime.. sadly.
<6> Libertine: why was Jefferson concerned about the FBI watching him
<6> sadly?
<3> fordnut: conspiracy is intent; not act.
<3> criminalizing intent; im just not for that.
<6> oh really
<0> Intent counts.
<6> so you see no difference between manslaughter and premeditated murder then
<6> or self defense
<3> intent behind 'act'
<6> are you on drugs?
<0> Intent is the difference between murder and accidents right.
<3> you still need an act first.
<6> the act is taking the money
<6> ffs
<3> criminalizing intent; without the 'act' tho. thats the difference.
<6> this guy is unbelievable
<0> Actually just saying you are going to hurt someone is ***ualt.
<6> im going to bed
<6> night sintient
<0> See yah.
<0> Sleep well.
<0> If you have the means to hurt someone and you threaten to do it that is ***ault.
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