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Comments:
<0> SonOfSpam, not all of the ops see things the same way
<1> We tend to differ on issues like power centralization in the US.
<2> What's going on with Iran?
<3> you dam solcist and bad healthcare
<4> man, this scene in the Untouchables is still one of the best, IMHO
<1> But tend to agree that the poor and disadvantaged need some gov't help.
<3> you dam solcist and bad healthcare
<1> And also tend to agree that fraud needs to be dealt with in social programs to make sure the poor are the ones who actually get the help.
<3> that crazy
<1> We also tend to agree that social programs should be an enabler to get the poor out of poverty, not just help them survive in it.
<0> SonOfSpam, I worry about white collar crime more than foodstamp fraud
<5> pmax: It all costs you money.
<3> thier no white collar crime
<3> very litte
<0> gopp, there is a lot
<5> gopp: Sure there is.
<3> far more food stam[ fruad
<0> gopp, feel free to provide proof
<3> sone
<5> gopp: White collar crime is more likely to affect me in a noticable way than food stamp fraud.
<3> some
<6> i would love to see Denmarks system in the USA just so people like pmax would stfu and realise that it wouldn't work
<3> not sure
<7> MrRod: not really
<6> heh leave it to MrRod
<5> panini: Actually, yes.
<1> White collar crime tends to hit investors in the company in question and often the employees of it as well.
<7> MrRod: unless you're the one committing the white collar crime...
<5> panini: Food stamp fraud may cost a bit more in taxes but it's a drop in the bucket for me. Someone cleaning out my checking account would be a much more major problem/
<7> MrRod: but no one is cleaning out your checking acct
<6> hehe panini
<5> panini: Not yet.
<1> The savings and loan scandals nailed a lot of people.
<7> so it's only a hypothetical problem
<5> panini: Hardly. It's happened.
<7> whereas food stamp fraud is a REAL problems
<5> panini: Not to me, thankfully.
<0> SonOfSpam, The savings and loan scandal is an ongoing cost to taxpayers due to the bailour
<0> t
<8> where can i see the mohammed cartoons?
<5> panini: They are both real problems. Only food stamp fraud doesn't have a big impact on me.
<1> pmax... aye, money that could have gone to better purposes.
<3> wrong
<3> pmax wrong wrong wrong it not costing tax payer nothing
<7> MudFlip: don't view them... you will be attacked by muslims!
<3> it the big idiots in goverment who are costing us money
<0> MudFlip, http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=381&Itemid=74
<5> panini is a Muslim. He'll attack.
<9> pfft
<3> the goverment has no right to tell the freemarket what to do pmax
<4> actually, i'ld say the mentality behind the foodstamp fraud is the biggest threat.. this idea that "big brother" has the responsibility to provide everything for the people.. is the real threat to the USA
<9> like muslims face anyone head on
<3> pmax the goverment has no right tell freemarket people what to do
<1> gopp... pmax doesn't support a free market economy, per se.
<3> pmax so they had no right to go after no one using our tax dollars
<3> oh
<3> I support freemarket, where I control not goverment
<7> here are some: http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/Mohammed-drawings.jpg
<3> my money, but you can have a different opnion
<10> you know, one has to wonder, where people get the idea that the poor do not have health care... when states pay millions and millions a year on health care cost for the poor, so if the poor are not receiving health care, where is this money going that the state pays, and another thing, if you do not have a home cause your taxed so high you can not afford to live, whats the point of health care?
<7> but i don't get the 1st cartoon
<1> Technically we have a mixed economy in the US anyways, so it's not that big a deal.
<3> JanetB great point
<4> Janet: ironic that those who do not question where billions of dollars go.. have as an agenda to thrwo more money at it
<3> good arugment
<3> Lup|ne lol
<1> JanetB... it's a matter of State vs Federal programs
<3> Lup|ne like board of educatiion asking for more more more more infity more oney
<3> money
<1> JanetB... a lot of people say the US doesn't spend enough on healthcare, but they tend to only look at the federal numbers.
<3> Lup|ne the unions of teachers want infity bank account of money
<1> JanetB... a lot of foreigners don't understand that the federal gov't has the least amount of say in such programs.
<1> It's primarily a state issue.
<3> that is spend as much as it takes so that kids can score 100%
<3> on a test
<10> SonOfSpam.. but the states spend millions
<3> may 1 billion dollars for each kid Lup|ne
<3> and the kidd will get 100% on the test
<1> JanetB... unfortunately alot of people in the States don't understand how it works either.
<10> no one is refused health care in this country
<3> what happen if you spend 1 billion per kid
<3> and the kids still fails the test
<3> or not score 100%
<5> JanetB: People are refused high quality health care.
<3> what rate of return on that invest
<3> MrRod no thier not
<3> what do you mean high quality
<5> gopp: Sure they are.
<7> gopp there is no royal road to geometry. euclid said that
<0> SonOfSpam, The main beef with the system in the U.S. is the cost, while in Canada, the principal complaint is the wait for services. Spending on health is $4,270 (U.S.) per capita in the U.S. and $2,250 in Canada. That's 13 per cent of the gross domestic product in the U.S. and 9.1 per cent in Canada.
<3> alll healthcare in america is good quality
<10> but that still does not answer the question, if you are taxed out of home and the ability to feed your family, what good does health care do
<7> gopp it's too good
<3> MrRod it illegal to get any healthcare
<10> MrRod.. we do not have low quality health care in this country
<1> pmax... it's a hot issue for sure.
<0> SonOfSpam, Despite the big difference in costs, there are only minor differences in use of services, and in health outcomes. Which is better - waiting a little longer for an operation, or being left to die in the street cause you don't got the 100k to afford your surgery? I'll take Canada's system over America's anyday of the year...
<3> are you saying some doctors want to kill thier patients and other are good
<3> MrRod
<6> Spending on health is $4,270 (U.S.) per capita in the U.S. and $2,250 in Canada. <------ its 2250 in Canada because they do not count how much they are taking out of their ***es in TAXES
<3> pmax what your arugment
<6> duh
<0> `426Hemi, that is the tax figure...
<3> pmax the poor get a free ride to college, free ride when they are sick
<3> what else do you want
<5> JanetB: Sure we do. Well, there are countries, like in Africa, that have much lower quality. It's all relative. I'll admit that I get much better health care service than poor people.
<10> so get a 100K surgery and be taxed so high you can not afford a housing to go our and live in the streets again
<10> heh
<3> american spend more on the poor
<3> then any other country
<5> gopp: Don't be a dumb***.
<3> and you dam liberal leftist pinko disliek that
<0> gopp, I know some pretty poor people who do not get a free ride to college
<11> gopp since when?
<3> MrRod i won't I just will say what I belive is tax
<10> MrRod.. I have excellent health insurance, yet I still wait 12 to 17 hrs in the emergency room to be seen
<3> pmax becuase they want to be poor, I know many poor people who get a free ride in my univeristy free ride from eof, that is books included
<3> news books
<0> JanetB, you merely illustrate why progressive tax are desirable
<3> tution and sometimes even room and board
<10> and the poor are sitting there as well, they are not taken any slower
<5> JanetB: What kind of health care do you think you would get if you dropped your health insurance?
<3> no student loan pmax
<3> it fact
<0> gopp, some do, many do not
<3> those who choose not to get goverment grant are idiots
<10> MrRod.. the exact same kind, as the poor go to the same emergency rooms
<3> and want to be poor
<3> pmax why many don't becuase they hate school
<10> they just pull out their state health card
<3> and don't want to be educated
<3> pmax the money is thier for every poor person
<10> while I PAY for mine health care card
<3> some choose NO
<3> pmax don't be navie
<3> the money is thier
<10> there
<3> they make a choose
<3> and there
<10> choice
<3> the money is there
<3> and it there choice
<5> JanetB: Sure. For emergency care the hospital takes everyone. However, most people don't use the emergency room for normal health care.
<0> gopp, really then why does the FAFSA not result in the Pell Grants you indicate?
<1> pmax... I think there is a general fear of regulating the US health care industry too much and having it turn into the clusterfrag we have with the VA hospital system.
<5> JanetB: Ever consider dropping your health coverage and using the county hospital?
<10> MrRod.. they have free clinics... that you have about a hr wait in to be seen
<3> see pmax unlike you, I don't care or mind if people get a litte helping hand going to college, but I do care and get angry that we should force them to care about college
<3> no
<3> we can't force adults to act like adults
<10> MrRod, why should I
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