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Comments:
<0> woop!
<1> lol .. as if they would
<0> CometBaby: the press always throws softballs
<1> jhicks only to democrats
<0> nerf softballs
<0> naw, to all politicians
<0> it's how you stay in the loop
<0> it's really disgusting once you spend some time in DC
<0> sorta like watching sausage being made
<0> EXACTLY like that actually
<0> dammit, somebody stole my lighter
<0> no saturday morning wake-n-bake :(
<2> jhicks: that sounds like a good idea
<0> yeah but no lighter
<0> I bet Herzen swiped it
<1> it would be interesting to see if Rockefeller will deny it
<0> Of course he'll deny it.
<0> with righteous indignation
<0> But whoever leaked it, I'm glad.
<0> It makes Washington fight.
<3> jhicks your all over the place on opinion
<4> jhicks according to CIA officials, it will compromise our intelligence collection effort
<0> rond_lt: bipolar
<4> IS it worth that?
<4> I don't think so
<4> It is treason
<4> It endangers lives
<0> byLL: bah
<0> They should have used FISA and asked Congress for extensions.
<3> bi-boring
<4> jhicks the FISA is not necessary when we are chasing people who would harm the USA
<4> the FISA is only necessary to protect the rights of US persons
<0> byLL: How do you know they weren't doing Nixonian things?
<0> no oversight
<4> Not enemies of the USA who would do harm to the USA
<0> Or political enemies
<4> overight is not necesary in this case
<0> yes, the law says it is
<4> not political enemies. Enemies of the the USA
<0> prove it
<4> which law?
<0> FISA
<0> posse commitus
<4> FISA is there to protect the rights of US citizens, not enemies of the uSA
<0> several laws
<0> you can't be sure who they're spying on
<0> that's why courts issue warrants
<0> (even retroactively)
<0> there is no justification
<4> We already spy on people without warrants jhicks
<5> byLL: i thought the ammendments apply to the goverment, not us citizens
<0> byLL: yes, illegally
<4> jhicks not at all
<0> and when hillary inherits this liberal expansion of executive power you'll be whining
<4> the constitution protect the US citizens from the government
<0> nope, not anymore
<0> since the president has secret police now
<4> jhicks spying without warrants have been going on since George Washington
<0> doesn't make it right
<0> getting caught matters
<0> or does it?
<4> jhicks it is not necessary to get warrants to do search or spy on people who would harm the USa
<0> probably doesn't
<0> if that were the only people that would be spied on you're right
<0> but it's too tempting for a politician
<0> even if this president isn't doing it
<4> jhicks and Bush is applying it that way now
<0> a future one will
<0> it's only a matter of time
<0> it's a horrible precedent
<0> hence FISA
<0> strengthen the regime if you must
<4> jhicks if you are looking for a precendent, like I said above this has been going on since Washington
<0> this one got caught though
<4> I am sorry for the spelling errors
<0> n/p :)
<4> Nixon was wrong, Bush is right. If a president spies on those who would harm the USA no warrant is necessary and it is perfectly legal
<0> I'd be ok with immunity for Bush provided they start using FISA henceforth
<0> and strengthen FISA if necessary
<0> You can't trust politicians to do the right thing byLL
<4> TO use the FISA that way is unnecesary
<1> jhicks Bush does not need to give up his constitutional power over to fisa
<0> I don't agree he has that power.
<0> That's a liberal interpretation.
<1> your opinion and $2 will get you a cuppa coffee
<0> yeah :-/
<4> exactly CometBaby
<6> Errr
<6> =/
<0> We'll see. I'm hoping Congress does something useful before Bush's term ends.
<0> naaaah
<6> Muslims, protesting against free speech because of Danish cartoons, but use free speech to protest and have signs like "Europe, you're 9/11 is coming"
<6> Their actions don't seem to meet their rhetoric.
<4> There are those in Congress who want to use this issue to limit the power of the president.
<7> October 10, 1963, U.S. Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy committed what is widely viewed as one of the most ignominious acts in modern American history: he authorized the Federal Bureau of Investigation to begin wiretapping the telephones of the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.
<4> THat is the bottom line
<1> logic has never been the criteria
<6> O
<6> I'm sure if they protested in Iran
<0> byLL: good, the president has too much power since T. Roosevelt
<6> and said "Iran you're 9/11 is coming"
<6> They'd get their hands chopped off.
<2> Is this channel just full of U$ citizens?
<7> Kennedy acted reluctantly, and his order remained secret until May of 1968, just a few weeks after King's ******ination and a few days before Kennedy's own.
<0> buymymyth: I'm a secessionist, does that count?
<2> I've never seen an irc channel so concerned about one country before
<0> buymymyth: British politics is too boring.
<6> buymymyth, if you don't like it, leave
<2> jhicks: I dunno...is your son really in the army right now?
<0> not anymore
<2> jhicks: I am sorry about what I said
<0> k
<0> that'll be $5
<0> (US)
<0> crap, i gotta go do some real work now :(
<2> jhicks: hehe, its been laying on my mind since
<4> jhicks I think the president should have all the power he needs to protect the country as long as it doesn'y impinge on the basic rights of the citizens
<4> er doesn't
<2> good :)
<0> byLL: I don't like the executive doing much
<9> thats why the wiretap issue is so hard to say right or wrong
<0> byLL: weak presidents make me do the snoopy dance
<0> figurehead
<0> a constitutionalist house would make me ecstatic
<0> repealing laws left and right
<4> as peter goss said yesterdaym the worst thing about this is that the revelation compromises our intelligence collection abiliities
<0> he's fulla crap
<0> don't squeeze!
<2> Which revelation?
<0> later folks
<4> buymymyth the wiretapping revelation
<3> [08:54] <+jhicks> he's fulla crap <---- As if Jhicks is not
<3> geesh
<10> We do have domestic eviromentalist terrorism, would that mean they could wiretap all US citizens too as an excuse next?
<3> I hope so
<7> dont blow it out of all proportion, geez
<3> The Vail incident cost Vail resorts millions a few years ago. Would have been nice to stop it
<3> it cost us the Tax Payers millions in trying to figure out who was behind that and many other incidents
<10> I do see both sides of it, I'm working on 2 big construction projects and have to design things to make veryone happy...and that's sometimes hard, can't make everyone happy all of the time
<3> fortunatly they were caught now we will spend another million or so convicting them and then another million incarcerating them
<10> but I do see people who build without any concern for their runoff and eye sores
<2> I just hate the use of "we"
<2> and "them"
<10> Both sides need to work together to get a happy medium
<3> I agree but burning down the work is not the way to deal with that
<2> I can't come to terms with it personally
<11> for the "ethanol takes more energy then it produces" idiots : http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/energy.php
<10> true,
<12> obviously they havent looked into switch gr*** and wood chips
<13> is gasoline undertaxed in the usa?
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