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Comments:
<0> hubris
<1> Sure it is...its a theme
<1> Someone has a bad time, thats the story
<1> It happens all the time in modern writing
<0> man versus the gods is an ancient fourth theme no longer in play
<0> sort of ... don't dare rise above your station or you will get slapped down
<2> Oc: I got a question for you.
<0> yo
<2> Is there any... medical danger to getting bleach in an open wound, besides the ungodly pain of doing so?
<1> I've read and seen stories where the whole point is that the main character realizes something
<0> usually mix it half and half to disinfect
<1> Realization
<2> Doc: This was more an accident.
<0> myth: interesting ... go on
<2> Doc: I mean like unadulterated clorox.
<0> astrodog: you can use almost anything once to disinfect as long as it's not too strong, but don't keep doing it
<2> This wasn't to disinfect.... much better things than bleach around here for that.
<2> But....
<2> holy christ did that hurt.
<2> heh
<0> obviously strong alkalis or acids would be bad to get on your skin, wounded or not
<0> Astro: actually, bleach is the only thing that will reliably disinfect HIV
<1> There are lots of different stories. There are those where the character just goes through everyday life and nothing really happens
<2> Doc: Some advice.... don't have a cut you don't notice, then wring out a bleach soaked towel. It hurts. Alot.
<0> myth: well, that's plot, not theme, but the other had some promise ... the theme would be self-realization or life lessons maybe
<2> Like... oh my god, kill me now, hurts.
<2> heh
<0> Astro: I feel your pain ...
<0> damn ... now I'm getting confused on plot vs theme
<0> like some Herman Hesse stories were about searching within
<3> a plot is just the sequence of events; a theme is the 'flavor' or emotional impact of it
<1> Yeah, but the character must learn something....I think thats why I like Lost In Translation so much
<1> for example
<0> Timur: yeah, thanks
<3> buy: Same; that was a good movie
<0> but it was boy meets girl
<1> That was the plot...
<1> :)
<0> heh
<0> true ... you might have something exploring angst
<2> Really
<2> All movies are the "Self-Discovery" thing.
<1> Ok, Iron Chef
<2> OcDoc's cl*** of plots are all just differnt ways to get there.
<1> haha I dunno...taste
<1> Cooking, pleasure
<1> Porno's
<2> Doc: Probably my most painful cut experence involved having to clean a rather large gash on my finger with Ammonia while I was on a drive. I don't actually remember having to do it... but I know I did... so *shrug*
<3> Pornos, not Porno's, unless you mean 'of the porno'
<1> pornos...
<1> I know :)
<3> sorry, pet peeve. :)
<2> Of the pornos...
<2> Heh.
<1> I caught it hehe :)
<2> Its Timur of the pornos!
<3> ta-daa
<1> The presidents speeches....
<0> astro: there's nothing we've said about themes to prevent more than one in a particular story
<1> I dunno what that is...
<1> but its none of the above
<0> astro: I was trying to get to the few MOST BASIC themes
<1> Its a story to tell for generations though
<0> I have a collection of daniel webster's speeches and another of lincoln's speeches .. those are NOT stories
<0> orators = people who run their mouths
<0> so .... boy meets girl, voyage of self discovery, good guy bad buy and scary
<2> Doc: All of them are self-discovery.
<1> hahaha
<0> I wonder if scary is really a theme or whether it always comes down to good vs evil
<0> heh ... bad buy
<1> nah....
<1> Excitement
<4> man the usps is a joke. had something shipped on monday 2-day priority for a birthday present this weekend, it's still not here. looked on mapquest.com for directions from the sender's zip code to my zip code, and it's a 3 hour drive. it finally made it to my 'region' yesterday.
<0> there are many stories that are only scary
<1> Thats one too
<0> I was just sitting there and a ghost starts making my life miserable ... I only barely escaped
<1> A story about climbing a mountain thats never been climbed...then falling to your death
<1> Or something like that...
<1> Thats scary in some way...but not evil
<0> I always think there's some more basic theme tho, even in the most shallow entertainment stories
<1> And its none of the above
<0> or ... I think there's always ...
<5> What catagory does the story "GRizzley Man" fall into....you need a "the person is stupid catagory"
<0> well, that get's back to greek tragedy ... challenging the gods and getting slapped down
<5> lol
<5> your right
<2> rond: Good (The Man) v Evil (Stupidity).
<5> Astro :)
<0> even "To LIght a Fire" was inner realization
<0> the realization theme goes along with the others ... there you are, minding your own shallow business when BAM random terror strikes and you learn what's really important in life
<0> or, there you are minding your own biz dating every girl in sight when BAM the love of your life shows up
<1> But what about the "action" theme
<1> ?
<0> example?
<0> you mean like Zane Grey westerns?
<1> Not realization...but just the story of the climb up the mountain
<5> I watched Grizzly man last night with great anticipation. That turned to "this guy is a joke" pretty quickly then to just being appalled
<0> we have no clue why this guy is out in the middle of the west herding cattle?
<3> Usual Suspects was a good movie
<0> myth: why is the guy climbing the mountain?
<4> OcDoc: he was obviously looking for his gay boyfriend, haven't you seen brokeback mountain? that's what cowboys do
<0> pretty dull story if there's not theme at all
<0> Zaw: heh
<5> Grizzley man was a perfect example of "just experiencing life with out reading"
<1> To seek adventure I guess...
<3> to get to the other side
<0> myth: well, all the adventure stories I've ever read had some reason why the guy was adventuring
<0> that's the "theme"
<1> oc: I'm trying to move away from that to come up with a new kind of story dammit :)
<0> myth: I'm trying to help by critiquing .... l-)
<0> I'm trying to think of a pure adventure them ... the theme of the story is adventuring for it's own sake, but I can't come up with one
<1> If the story didn't have an end...
<4> Swiss Family Robinson!
<0> it's usually social ... the second son didn't inherit the estate and has to go to the new world in search of fame and fortuen
<1> But I think if you're talking about real life, a lot of times thats how it does end...there is no climax
<0> Zaw: good vs evil
<1> But you do always have a sense of adventure
<0> stories ... we're talking about literature
<1> But thats no good
<0> even bad literature has a theme
<0> or ... Victorian women are boring and he has to go to africa to find a real woman ... boy meets girl
<0> or daredevil woman has to prove she's better than men but finally meets her (love) match in a REAL MAN
<0> I mean, they're all variations on more basic themes
<1> I have to ask what defines literature....
<1> Is a cookbook literature for example?
<0> myth: good question ... got a few months?
<0> but basically literature is written stories
<0> a cookbook isn't literature
<1> Ok...so its a story
<3> nope, ain't
<0> a story can be based on truth or be almost completely fictional
<0> if it has the elements of literature it is literature ... plot, character, theme, development
<1> Hmm....
<6> 'literature' comes from root words meaning "letter-age". So, a cookbook being a mess of letters, it's literature, in that sense.
<0> how to books and philosophy, or science is not literature per se
<0> that's a case of a definition not helping much
<0> writing about scientific discovery, or the lives of the philosophers would be
<3> Oc: 'who moved my cheese'; 'the traveler's gift'
<6> Connotatively, literature is fiction, or artful commentary.
<1> I just keep wanting to resort back to the everyday practice of something, which in itself is a story
<0> Timur: parables
<0> Word: there you go ... that's closer
<3> right. .parables can constitute literature
<6> Or history, of course, as OcDoc says!
<0> Timur: I agree
<3> or historical fiction, a la Barbara Tuchman
<3> or Umberto Eco
<1> What clssification is Dr. Seuss?
<0> instructions to drive to my house from the nearest freeway are not literature
<0> silly literature
<1> I think thats what I'm getting at.
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