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Comments:
<0> Not concious thought.
<1> how do u know its not concious?
<2> the treatment of animals does absolutely require morals
<0> Beau: Its brain doesn't have the right parts to be concious.
<1> like, "mooo, these are my ****ing children."
<1> is that a fact?
<2> if animals were not included in the morality ship, then it would be ok to torture animals for entertainment (that is a strawman for your enjoyment)
<0> ttt: Being cruel indicates that there's something wrong with someone... but in and of itself, its not immoral.
<1> I wish we tortured humans for entertainment
<1> leave the animals alone
<2> but, you do have to use morals to interact with animals. that is established
<2> you can go to jail for immoral treatment of an animal
<1> anyone ever see slaughterhouse-5 the movie?
<0> ttt: Right. Because torturing animals indicates a more fundamental mental problem.
<2> so, it follows that feedig an animal unnatural food can be immoral act
<0> No...
<0> Goddamn hippies.
<3> Cows have kids just like humans and dogs and cats and things like that
<3> We can't raise a calf
<0> buy: Yes... cows reproduce.
<3> Only a cow can
<0> Sure we can.
<0> They do **** like that at zoos all the time.
<4> | http://img342.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalmumommod4op.jpg
<3> Really?
<2> astro: no. morality applies to animals
<3> How do we feed the calf?
<2> fundamentally
<0> buy: Give it some bacon? :P
<1> or steak
<2> you can eat an animal. but you cannot rorture an animal. there are rules about it
<0> ttt: Morality applies to animals, only because some behaviors with animals hurt people.
<3> hahah
<2> if you are going to eat an animal, you have to kill it humanely. see the humane word
<0> If you torture an animal, it indicates that you'll hurt people. That's why morality applies.
<1> animals should only be allowed to be killed by bullet execution style.
<3> I know how cows have babies :)
<0> buy: Yeah. They push em out, like everything else.
<0> :P
<3> And they feed them
<3> You don't take a calf away from its mother
<2> no. you can be punished for abusing an animal even if you never hurt a human being. it is separate
<3> until its ready
<0> You can, though.
<0> Infact, you could trade calves, between 2 mothers, if you were so inclined.
<3> It'll die
<0> ttt: Abusing an animal indicates that you'll probably hurt people later.
<0> Thus the immorality of it.
<1> no
<2> the entire issue is stupid when we buy packaged meat at safeway, and coddle a cat while we cook
<1> it would be immoral even if it didn't indicate that you'll probly hurt people.
<0> ttt: I'd eat a cat. :P
<2> but, its established that you cannot torture any animal
<0> Beau: Why?
<2> that is morality
<2> that is not anything other than morality
<0> Buncha goddamn hippies.
<1> astrodog, your a genius.
<0> I'm gonna go eat some GE veal, and some non-organic bananas with pesticide on them. bbl.
<2> a side question is...why don't the cats mind that we are eating animals in front of them? are they cruel or what?
<0> ttt...
<1> yeah cats are bitches
<0> They're cats. They don't have the parts of the brain required for concious thought, either.
<2> cats are bitches from mars
<0> Dogs don't, cats don't, cows don't.
<1> astrodog thats not true.
<1> dogs, cats, and cows all have the ability to think conscious thought
<0> No... they don't.
<1> u ever see one of those animals?
<0> There are a few upper primates that can, that's about it.
<2> astro: you shouldn't be eating carnivores
<1> I've seen dogs, cats, and cows, all make conscious descisions.
<2> its a basic rule to not eat the carnivores
<0> Beau: They don't have the right parts of the brain to have concious thoughts.
<0> They're physically incapible of it.
<2> see, that is why we shouldn't feed cows other animals
<1> I don't believe you
<3> I think that if you look up "conscious" in the dictionary you'll seem like an idiot astro
<0> Beau: *shrug*
<0> Not my problem.
<0> Now
<3> I think you mean consciencious or whatever
<1> well it is your problem, but since I don't believe you it's not my problem too.
<3> ...or whatever
<0> Off to eat the genetically enhanced veal, and a kitten.
<2> astro is never an idiot.
<2> nevah
<1> dogs and cats dont have conscious thought tho?
<1> thats rediculous
<3> Of course the do
<3> they
<3> Just not along the same lines...but many humans don't think along the same lines either
<0> They don't have the correct brain parts, to have conscious thought
<0> Its not along differnt lines.
<2> the word you want is probalby sentience. sentience can be taken down to selfawareness. usually taken doen to pain avoidance. most animals will avoid pain
<0> The parts aren't there.
<3> arghrhghrthgh
<3> "conscious"
<0> buy: Can you wag your tail? No? That's because you don't have a tail.
<3> again...what does the word "concious" mean man?
<2> self awareness is mostly pain avoidance, at the debate level
<3> You are barking up the wrong tree astropuppy
<3> :)
<3> You don't know what that word means
<0> Anyway, I'm hungry. Mmmm. Tasty kitten.
<0> :P
<3> hehe
<2> buy: use the word sentience
<0> Here, I've got a question for you guys before I go.
<2> kitten is greasy
<0> Would you club a baby seal, to save someone's life?
<2> forget it kitten eater
<0> Actually
<0> You know what's really good?
<2> astro: you would have to write a very good fiction to conjure up a scenario where that would actually happen
<0> Duck.
<3> Eat it and shut up
<0> ttt: Someone holds a gun to someone's head. They say club this baby seal, or the person dies.
<2> yeah, duck is da bomb
<2> get it at the chines restaurant
<0> Buy: Ever had dog? I think I might have... once.
<2> astro: in that specific scenario. the seal dies
<0> At the cheap chinese place here, that got closed down for serving.... non-chicken.
<2> hopefully a good purse is also made
<0> ttt: Alright
<0> What about a dolphin?
<0> Would you kill a dolphin to save a person?
<2> go to the place with ducks hanging in the window
<5> i would
<2> thats how you know its good
<3> astro: I haven't knowingly eaten mammals for about 17 years
<0> buymy: Your loss, I suppose. :\
<3> astro: I probably never had dog...but I may have hehe
<0> Do you eat lizard?
<0> :P
<2> astro: i would kill any animal to save any person. next.
<0> ttt: Would you kill 1 person, to save 2?
<2> astro: i am prolly not going to kill anyone
<0> Would you, though?
<2> no
<3> astro: I haven't...but I've had various fish and crustaceans
<0> Alright, why was it okay to kill the dolphin, but not the person?
<2> i am civilian. any killing i do will be based on hysteria. not statistics
<3> I don't give a **** about birds really either
<0> buy: Swordfish is good stuff.
<1> I wouldn't kill one person to save two... I'd rather the two die.
<1> and once they died, I'd kill the one left.
<2> the dolphin is not a human being. thats the only reason why
<3> Astro: I like eel...no bones :)
<0> ttt: Would you kill 1 old person, to save a whole schoolbus of children?
<1> yeah nonhuman=less than human
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