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Comments:
<0> "Troops out Now"
<0> They should piss off
<1> Besides the economic arguments which favor free trade, Japan wasnt very open in their trade and look at their economy for the last 15 years.
<1> But besides the economic argument is the argument is govt by and for the people ? Or it by for and protectionists in narrow economic interests?
<1> Harm the whole for the few ?
<2> im ust sick of the whole argument that construction business requires illegal labor. Have you seen the ****ing houses developers, contractors and the like build for themselves?
<2> usually the best in town
<1> Or let the few be victims of a free market and free economy at the benefit of the all.
<3> freetrade, everyone knows comparative advantage. that isnt the issue, the reality of the situation isnt that simple
<2> on the best lots
<1> I would pefer to have the govt pay to retrain these 100k workers than close the doors to free trade.
<2> they benefit, the rest of the taxpayers foot the bill
<3> no i think that free trade has an overall detriment not just to a 'few interests'
<1> Reetrain these displaced workers into higher paying jobs than they have ever had.
<1> That is the reality of free trade.
<3> what is
<1> it benefits the whole but with any economic change it always displaces some minority.
<1> Well if they cant compete globally in that industry give it to the more efficient countries and compete in what we are best at.
<3> its as easy to say the opposite freetrade
<1> Retraining workers would cost less to the economy than Putting up trade barriers.
<3> its not a matter of a country being more efficient
<4> Small and medium-sized Mexican businesses that survived the initial NAFTA shock were faced with a difficult uphill struggle: between 1992 and 1998, the share of total Mexican employment provided by micro, small and midsize firms fell from 51 to 42.8%. Credit has also become a problem for domestic businesses. As Mexicos banking system was bought up by foreign (largely U.S.) interests,lending to Mexican business declined from 10% of GDP in 1994 to 0.3
<1> Its the easy argument to argue against any economic change because it hurts people. Free market economies are constantly hurting people, 1 in 5 or so business
<1> 's fail
<1> Failure hurts
<1> but its what makes our economy so strong that we allow failure
<5> I think it would be true to say that all businesses fail/close... eventually
<1> the worst parts of our economy are where failure isnt punished, Teachers unions, Public employees unions, etc.
<5> 95%+ fail in the first year :)
<1> Most intellectuals know that the major problem with education is the Protection of teachers.
<5> So, timline is important when talkin about business success/fail rates
<1> People who study school systems and their results.
<5> excuse the dropped keys there
<1> Open the markets and dont be afraid.
<1> Adjust
<6> Who d cut your gr*** or pick your beans if there weren't illegal mexicans in america ? The fact is mexican aliens are doing jobs that americans don t want to do
<1> Retrain
<1> Its like when I became disabled..
<1> I had to adjust
<1> I know longer could operate the way I used to operate.
<1> no longer
<5> hum, that maks me think of an interesting question... what is the oldest single business which is still in operation today? (world wide?)
<1> Noone wants to change, noone wants a good thing to end, no matter how bad it is for everyone else. no matter how inefficient it is or how poorly people are served.
<1> hence we have tenure for public school teachers.
<1> they are virtually impossible to fire.
<1> Same with tenured University professors.
<1> 70% of America would like to see Ward Churchill fed to the lions because he obtained his job based on fraud and keeps it based on his tenure and union.
<7> LOL
<5> I doubt that any businesses/merchants from prior to the late 1800s are still in business
<1> So the 70% have to suffer a liar who educates their children who is not even a native american indian as he claims.
<6> New York Times: The spacecraft is small by world standards a microsatellite of a few hundred pounds. Launched in October by the Russians for an oil-rich client, it orbits the earth once every 99 minutes and reportedly has a camera for peering down on large swaths of land
<5> Wait, Husky is been in business for just over 300 years now...
<1> And the truth is he doesnt education them, he throws diatribes at them all day long and they are supposed to memorize it and take it to heart.
<5> So I guess even the 1600s is feasable
<4> NAFTA--that loud ****ing sound of Mexican Illegal Aliens streaming into America. NAFTA finished off Mexico, along with Wal-Mart, and their non-union fetish.
<3> freetrade its not just a matter of free competition or comparative advantage. the reason why mexicos laborers are 'more efficient' is because of lack of labor and other protections and legal restrictions. also foreign copmanies that move into mexico dont have to invest in the mexican economy. wealth has been created historically by creation of domestic industries, and domestic pressures that go hand in hand with increased labo
<3> if the market were ideal like in textbooks free trade would work, but economies, societies, and legal systems are structured, which creates lopsided situations
<5> I bet some of the Inns in rural japan are quite old
<5> and China
<6> "But what makes this satellite particularly interesting is not its capabilities, which are rudimentary, but its owner: Iran. With last year's launching and another planned in the next few weeks, Tehran has become the newest member of the international space club.
<4> NAFTAs Chapter 11 provisions have been used to attack environmental and health policies. For example, a California company, Metalclad, was awarded $15.6 Million in compensation from the Mexican government after it claimed that its NAFTA investor rights were violated by the municipality of Guadalcazars denial of a construction permit. Metalclad wanted to build a toxic waste disposal facility on a site which had been previously contaminated wi
<3> and this is a fact, the gap of wealth between rich and poor nations is increasing all the time; and the world is being divided between consumer and producer states
<1> Redfish, A great example of the economic development of a nation is Japan from 1960 when it was 3rd world to 1980 when it was the 2nd biggest economy in the world.
<4> the area cleaned up and other conditions met before the site was expanded. The Mexican company from which Metalclad had purchased the site had been denied the same permit showing that this was not a case of discrimination against foreign investors. The NAFTA panel that heard Metalclads claim, however, did so behind closed doors with the affected citizens and local governments entirely excluded and with NAFTA investment rules not Mexican or U.
<1> They started out like China making cheap **** and toys and junk which they exported..
<5> I bet that the oldest operational company is some sort of alcohol distillary/maker
<3> freetrade, a great example of economic development is the US in the 19th century, where its economy was built on high tariffs
<1> when I grew up Made in japan was on the back of all cheap ****
<3> freetrade, which proves nothing
<5> Or, firearms
<5> Either weapons or alcohol I bet
<1> then they started taking american inventions and designs and m*** producing them and in some cases making them better.
<5> Beretta has been in business since the 1500s
<8> man, delay resigining ****s
<8> he hasnt been found guilty of anything
<1> It wasnt small japanese sword making companies or soji screen companies who made the economy it was m*** production.
<9> FreeTrade -- Japan an industrialized nation before too. It is not model of third world development
<1> and as their wealth increased as their trade increasedtheir education increased
<7> o_O
<10> what do you think they got on Delay?
<3> listen the US grew from small colonies to an economic power on tariffs. im not cheering for tariffs, im just saying that they dont have a single innevitable consequence, good or bad. they're an economic tool that can lead to different effects
<9> Japan was an industrial giant before
<1> and they grew more and more wealthy and educated and became a super economy.
<8> they have nothing on delay so far
<8> just allegations
<10> do you think Tony Rudy will turn him in?
<8> probably false ones, judging by the prosecutors history
<5> AAAman "before" what?
<9> Before WWII
<8> but enough to ruin delay politically
<1> Mexico needs to start with foreign investment then learn to build what we ceated intellecually cheaper, you already see it, Made in Mexico on Jeans.
<4> NAFTA--one nasty piece of work. NAFTAs investment rules which also form the core of the proposed FTAA ensured that when companies moved to cheaper locations there would be few residual benefits. Fully one third of the 800,000 manufacturing jobs that the Mexican government says were initially created under NAFTA have disappeared as companies have raced downward to take advantage of still cheaper labor in such countries as China, Malaysia and
<1> Made in Mexio on more and more products.
<8> it's ****ed up
<10> his former aide Rudy just pleaded guilty
<1> This is what happened when Japan took off and china took off..
<5> AAAman ah yeah... tough S Korea wasn't... they've done a remarkable job modernizing... possibly the best example there is in such a short timespan
<10> then Delay decides to quit
<9> Japan was just a matter of reconstruction and not origination
<10> you dont see a connection
<1> Im not sure mexico will advance rapidly at any point because of culture but they will keep advancing and growing their economy
<11> Mexico used to say that seventy percent of profits had to be reinvested in Mexico so my dads company and nmany others sdaid no thank you. Now they are opened up and nobody wants to go there but that is because their govt is qa corrupt skankhole
<9> SKorea and Singapore are better examples
<1> The truth is NAFTA is really semi free trade, it has so many regulations its absurd.
<8> the connection is abramoff and now some intern or aid has done delay in
<4> NAFTA - LARGE CORPORATIONS' GLOBAL SLAVE LABOR
<1> One wonders if Japan would of become a economic power with such regulations.
<5> I don't know anything about Singapore's economy/changes
<8> and allegations of misconduct
<9> S Korea historically back in the 15th century was advanced
<1> Boltzz, Take your communism to a political/economy/utopian channel.
<9> Korea is given credit for the invention of the printing press
<1> We are debating reality here, not slogans.
<8> at this point he's been found guilty of nothing
<5> AAAman yeah, but they didn't idustrialize until post WW2
<11> boltzzzz--why does large equal bad in your opiniuon
<9> KoBushi -- Just to recognize their historic talents
<10> delay, ney, cunningham
<8> stop it he's a troll
<10> are there more?
<1> Barry but his being locked down in court battles for who knows how long might jeopordize the party and his own ability to act as a congressman
<9> KoBushi -- Same with China
<1> Free trade also can enhance the investment climate, improve the rate of technological development, stimulate firms to become more competitive, and raise the economy's rate of growth. Consumers, in particular, benefit considerably from lower prices and a wider choice of products. These dynamic gains are often of greater long-term significance than the benefits of comparative advantage.
<5> AAAman S Korea has done a far better job though; much higher literacy rate, etc
<9> China now has the fastest growing economy
<5> AAAman it's not hard to grow when % wise you are so poor
<4> As the Marxist Hamas HO Senator from NY said in June 2004,"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
<1> I used to tell a guy who sat on #limbaugh years ago on efnet, about how freetrade worked, and I convinced him and he now has a popular blog site
<12> physically speaking, wtf is economic growth?
<5> going from $6000/person to $8000/person is a HUGE rate of growth percentially... but not much really
<1> But I explained to him how the japanese consumer had to pay $25 for a NY steak which cost americans $8
<9> KoBushi -- In a sense true, but tell that to all the other poor countries getting nowhere
<1> I also made many other comparisons but what is obvious here.
<1> Who is suffering ?
<1> The consumer obviously
<1> He has to pay more for the same thing than other people do
<1> California Rice is cheaper than Japanese rice
<1> the wouldnt let us in
<5> damn it... Taco Bell didn't put any refried beans in m Boarder Bowl!
<9> India has protective trade barriers
<1> the japanse people could feed their families cheaper by not restricting trade over rice.
<5> I wish they'd hire some mexicans who can make it right ;)
<1> I have a friend of my dads whose full time job for the State of Oregon is economic trade diplomacy
<9> Japanese protect their farmers beyond reason
<2> no KoBushi that's a bad KoBushi!
<1> But what japan did by its punitive tarriffs is deny japanese consumers a choice and the ability to save money.
<5> the japanse gov. has subsidized the building of remote control helicopter crop dusters/waterers
<5> like $100k/ea I think
<9> French protect their farmers
<2> protecting a nations farmers is major national security. if your farmers go under, you rely on other countries for your food, which is absolutely insane from a national security point of view
<11> If trade is defined by a country selling goods to a country and China sells for one hundred per place setting, how much would it cost if there was no trade?
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