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Comments:
<0> Bokavich
<1> Capitalism requires freedom timur.
<1> Communism represses it
<2> Comet: No it doesn't.
<3> I don't know anything about the western side of China
<2> Woah woah.
<4> Pub: why? :)
<2> CApitalism does NOT require freedom.
<1> astro .. you cant separate economic and political freedom
<2> Capitalism requires ECONOMIC freedom. Not social liberty.
<4> CB: depends what kind of capitalism, and what kind of freedom.
<0> Communist state
<5> hey Cometbaby
<4> exactly
<6> free market capitalism requires freedom... but not all capitaism is free markets :)
<0> that's the official title
<1> capitalism is economic democracy....
<0> Communist state
<0> laebl
<5> :)
<6> well hell got a service call
<6> later
<1> representative democracy is political capitalism
<0> Cia....UN...whoever
<2> Capitalism certainly works better, with freedom.
<0> China is a communist state...officially!
<4> sure
<0> HA
<2> But it doesn't require it.
<2> Pub: True. :P
<7> i would say communism is economic democracy
<1> astro .. democracy is rule by the people
<5> hey Cometbaby :)
<1> you do not have that in china
<1> hey sulla :)
<7> If equality is what we mean by democracy
<4> but for example, Chile was a military dictatorship for a good while as it developed and enhanced its capitalism
<2> Comet: The people's congress is elected, technically. ;)
<4> no one is claiming China's democratic, afaik
<7> lol
<2> "People's Republic of China". They're a republic! See? Its in the name! ;)
<1> astro .. boo to that arguement :)
<4> not all authoritarian states are communist
<0> Communism=USSR-Marx= Fail
<3> Timur: South Americans probably have it worse than China
<4> more of a centralized military dictatorship
<0> hahahaha
<5> like Fascist states
<4> VemoD: not in Chile, or Argentina
<0> well
<1> it is generally regarded that capitalism is necessary for democracy
<7> Just because they claim communism doesn't mean much, they are Nationalistic and Socialistic, not communists
<2> Comet: In China, what you have now, is basically a capitalist democracy, without social freedom, which creates all sorts of weird problems.
<4> but democracy isn't totally necessary for capitalism
<1> Capitalism is definitely NOT required for democracy
<0> how about we just stop that freedom violation thing
<4> Pub: 'we'?
<0> hahaha
<0> ...
<1> in fact, if you study this in depth you will find that Stalinist Russia was in fact democratic
<5> im a die hard Fascist
<0> internet can do it
<1> and so was germany
<2> An authoritarian, capitalist, democracy... which makes no sense logically... but its what they've got.
<2> heh
<4> Stalinist Russia was democratic?
<0> The more people cry about it...the more individuals cry to their governments to work with China to change
<2> Comet: Well
<1> the problem as I see it
<0> haha
<2> The politburo in Russia was determined by the Party.
<1> is that people think that democracy is always a good thing..
<2> In China, its elected by the People's Congress.
<5> i call it the political amorphus blob
<4> in a meaningless, surface, potemkin village kinda way, but that's it
<1> this is shallow thinking..
<1> Democracy can be good or evil
<1> but the left likes to use it as one of their feel good terms
<0> Timur: Ww can do something...if it is wikipedia or complain to the U.N by an email...just sayni
<4> CB: I agree, it's one of the ideas of the neocon world vision with which I disagree, because it's ahistorical and naive
<5> my allies are
<4> Pub: ok, fair enough
<2> Comet: I think the key here, is that democracy, and capitalism don't also mean civil liberties, nessisarily.
<5> Ashcroft
<5> Rumsfield
<5> Powell
<5> Bush
<4> thanks for the list..er.. I gues
<5> and a few others
<1> astro it would be generally correct to say that capitalism is generally required for Liberty
<1> but not for democracy
<0> Democracy shuold have a higher rate of civil liberties though...regardless of the economy
<0> I think
<2> Comet: You must have capitalism, and democracy to have extensive civil liberties.
<1> democracy is a form of statism ..
<5> we dont care too much for human rights
<1> where the bureaucrats and politicians determine
<2> But, you can have capitalism, and democracy without civil liberties too. It just doesn't work very well.
<5> can you blame us
<1> what we can and cannot buy and sell
<0> pure democracy is for those greek loony philosophers
<0> hehe
<5> heh
<7> Democracy in it's literal sense is mob rule
<1> it HAS to be purchased
<7> The majority gets to decide everything
<8> i thought capitalism breeds stuff like sweetshops and stuff?
<1> or sold
<1> no matter if nobody wants it or needs it
<1> that is not freedom
<0> brb
<7> so it doesn't necessarily mean more civil liberties
<5> if you want another 9/11 thats fine by us
<1> that is not the same as free enterprise or capitalism
<8> you guys watch daily show?
<7> occaisionally
<5> it was analagous to when Napoleon was so popular he had no secret police
<0> k
<5> but then some anarchist idiots blew up his carraige on the way to the opera
<5> so he went to the state mental hospita
<5> so he went to the state mental hospital
<2> Comet: You have free economic exchange, but not the free exchange of political ideas, in China, which is the problem.
<0> hahahaha
<5> and got the most brilliant, most dangerous madman
<5> and made him head of his secret police
<5> after that
<1> astro .. china has a huge problem. They want the capitalism but they want nothing to do with democracy or individual rights.
<1> hence they can only go so far
<5> all Napoleon's problems faded away
<0> Napolean was am emperor...he just conned approval out of people with laws
<2> Comet: They have capitalism, and democracy, but they don't want individual rights.
<5> until Warterloo
<5> heh
<1> astro they have a fake democracy
<2> Comet: China's government is elected, in real, no **** elections.
<1> not a real one
<0> hahaha
<1> they have a bad democracy that does not allow any real freedoms
<0> THere one party!
<0> their*
<9> I cannot see how you can have free economic exchange without the freedom to exchange all ideas
<2> rond: That's where it gets bizzare.
<1> but if you feel better using the feelgood term . . thats your problem. Just don't expect me to buy into it.
<0> rond
<9> and I say that as a self employed business man of 20 years
<0> there communist party is big
<5> Europe is still under Napoleonic code
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