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Comments:
<0> with movesd toward inviting iran to join the "international community", while still allowing tyhem to "preserve their islamic values"
<1> Jhicks, We pay them too much. Though I support giving them defensive weapons like Patriot II
<2> Katey: Let's agree to disagree and move on?
<0> this would eventually eliminate the militancy
<1> WE do collaborate on some weapon designs.
<3> Publius, ok...what are we disagreeing about again? :)
<4> au revoir, mes amies, other tasks beckon
<5> FreeTrade: And look what we get for our investment. Embroiled in eternal war in a sandflea infested ****hole
<2> Katey: SUch a thing never happened! I think you might have a good point about getting involved with the middle east(Israel) may not have been a good idea
<5> There will never be peace in that terrible place
<2> However
<6> I am going to quote something. it is somewhat long and from 1967
<6> In the name of the amulets of touching, seeing, groping, hearing and loving, we call upon the powers of the cosmos to protect our ceremonies in the name of Zeus, in the name of Anubis, god of the dead, in the name of all those killed because they do not comprehend, in the name of the lives of the soldiers in Vietnam who were killed because of a bad karma, in the name of sea-born Aphrodite, in the name of Magna Mater, in the name of Dionysus, Zagreus, J
<2> I also feel that it is foolish to spend too much time arguing about what happened in the past. We have to focus on a present and real threat
<3> Publius, well, I wasn't trying to make that point. But yes, supporting Israel has had it's good and bad points
<5> pilgrim`: aphrodite was a biatch
<3> I don't know if it's a net gain
<7> dionysus, mmmmmm god of wine.
<6> that is Ed Sanders of the Fugs at the Exorcism of the Pentagon
<7> id definately pay homage to him
<1> I mean dont get me wrong I support Israels existance and would back it with US Force. I am willing for my tax dollars to do that, I would not help Israel out of its frequent self made messes.
<5> FreeTrade: law of the jungle over the long haul
<3> I don't think we really have any real choice though, geopolitically speaking
<5> survival of the fittest
<3> They're our closest "friend" in the region
<1> But as for all out war, I would work to intervene to stop it or back Israel.
<6> the quintessent finality of the Zoroastrian fire, in the name of Hermes, in the name of the Beak of Sok, in the name of scarab, in the name, in the name, in the name of the Tyrone Power Pound Cake Society in the Sky, in the name of Rah, Osiris, Horus, Nepta, Isis, in the name of the flowing living universe, in the name of the mouth of the river, we call upon the spirit to raise the Pentagon from its destiny and preserve it.
<3> and they need us very badly
<5> and if they can't stand on their own then they will fall, sooner or later
<6> some here may have heard me use a term from that
<3> jhicks, that may be
<8> Israel is a Rottweiler on a leash: The US wants to "set Israel loose" to attack Iran. Commenting the Vice President's ***ertion, former National Security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski in an interview on PBS
<2> Katey: not anymore, no. So I think we have to focus on dealing with the problems effectively now instead of arguing the why's sadly
<6> --the Tyrone Power Pound Cake Society in the Sky
<3> jhicks, I think the current goal is to "remake" the middle east and then it will be a shiny, happy place where everyone loves one another. :)
<1> Katey one thing annoying is you will have a hard time getting any of them to admit they need us.
<1> Pride.
<5> Katey-: riiiight :)
<6> that ceremony was in 1967; a protest against Vietnam
<2> woah
<8> katey is correct
<2> what is laguhsing
<3> FreeTrade, well, they don't have to admit it publically. It's very obvious
<6> the pentagon was suposed to rise 300 feet turn upside down and all the deamons fall out
<5> Katey- didn't say it would work
<3> jhicks, ;)
<2> HAHAQ!
<2> hahaha
<5> All indications are that it's a miserable failure.
<5> MISERABLE
<1> Though there is a centrist group of Peace advocates both Israeli and Palestinian who want us to put our military foot down and force them apart like two fighters and force them to make peace.. But we could never do that, That would be too direct confrontation.
<3> Personally, I think it's naive. But I know that the current administration is very commited to this theory
<1> Katey they deny it
<1> Not just dont admit it
<3> Publius, ok. But it's an idealized description, don't you think?
<1> They believe like the USA did before Nixon and JFK
<5> Katey-: What ever happened to loudmouth Richard Perle?
<3> and that's being generous
<3> jhicks, I can't remember where they stuck him
<1> When America believed we could do no wrong and lose no wars.
<1> They are at that statge
<5> in a hole i hope
<1> stage
<3> jhicks, aye. But don't count on it
<2> Katey: That's your ***umption the administration feels it will be perfect. They just want to enable these individuals to be open to freedom and democracy
<1> Then we had vietnam
<1> Blew that attitude out of the water.
<5> Conrad Black and Richard Perle
<5> They lied about that war too
<9> Conrad Black's probably going to prison by now
<5> Gulf of Tonkin. HAH!
<3> Publius, My ***umption is that the administration thinks it can be done. I say that because that's what they've been telling me for a few years now.
<2> FreeTrade: Iraq is more similar to Japan and Germany. VIetnam failed because it was a defense against an invasin. Iraq will suceed because it is liberating a tortured people long due some freedom...I think
<5> Lupine has madd gunsmith skillz
<10> katey: care to provide any citation of them telling you it would be "perfect"?
<11> Publius: which tortured people?
<11> iraq will be split into 3 countries
<5> Katey-: "The invasion will pay for itself"
<5> etc
<10> jhiks: pilgrim is impervious to any caliber OTHER than .32acp
<11> those sunnis really screwed up
<11> this time
<10> jhicks: you put that in quotes.. any actual source?
<8> jhinks: are you retarded ?
<5> Paul Wolfowitz said it
<2> these people were suffering. Saddam Hussein was an immoral waste of life
<5> Johan}: your momma ****s me anyway
<10> jhicks: that is your personal claim, yes
<9> people are suffering now..just differently...
<1> When I first heard Bush elaborate on the blessings of Democracy I was emberressed.. Until I understood he was not a Wilsonian. He meant over a very long term and his defintion of democracy is not the normal definition, He realizes for some it will come slow and over a long time and for others it would be structured very different than say a typical western democracy.
<8> jhinks sounds like he needs to unzip his pants to be able to count to 11
<5> And then they fired the budget guy for estimating 80B
<0> i suffer from acid reflux disease
<3> Publius, I think their belief that it can be accomplished by an outside party (us) in a nation where we lack much understanding of the culture and political complexities and underestimate the disparate goals of the people there is naive.
<0> its a terrible cross to bear
<3> Publius, that's basically the gist of my opinion on the matter
<9> occ, nexium is your friend
<2> Katey: that is based on the ***umption we underestimate
<1> HIs point is right though, until these people have reason to live beyound hate and fear of american boogiemen, they will be fertile grounds for the making of a terrorist.
<3> Publius, well, it's already a fact that we underestimated
<6> iirc a common post WWII round was the 08-06 which was a 8mm varriant using 30-06 br***
<1> Occ, Hey I did too and had surgery for it
<5> 2 trillion dollars we'll pay for Iraq. Minimum.
<2> Katey: then we are no longer underestimating now are we?
<3> Publius, take a look at the administration's statements leading up to this endeavor
<10> katey: ah.. "you think that they think" wow, VERY factually based.
<1> If you ever get breathing problems with your gerd.. You may be close to needing surgery
<10> pil: Yep.. of course, the 8mm mauser was actually 7.92x57mm
<6> it was designed to allow GIs with war trophey mausers to fire them given the post war shortage of 8mm Mau br***
<3> Publius, eh. It's a little late for that now.
<2> OH NO
<12> so, do you right wing people think we should legalize prostitution
<5> Clinton should have been executed!
<6> Lupien I knowl; I have a Hakim in 8mm Mau
<13> Can anyone tell me about Roe Versus Wade (in a nut shell)?
<3> Publius, we're in it and it's an expensive, tangled mess that doesn't appear to be solvable in any sort of timely manner
<10> jhicks: naw, its up to 15trillion once you take into account inflation, falling US dollar, deficits etc
<3> Frankly, the only people who can figure all of this stuff out are the Iraqis
<5> Lupine: yay
<1> We aint right wing people, but Yes I think we should.
<2> katey: Maybe not to you but it appears solveable to the government that runs this country
<12> Well, there was some guy who was rowing a boat, but it tipped over and he had to wade.
<3> They'll have to just do whatever it is they're going to do and there's not really a lot we can do to fix it anymore.
<10> jhicks: of ocurse, I just pulled that out of my ***, like you pulled it out of yers :P
<5> Lupine: no, i didn't do that
<3> Publius, I think it appeared solvable to them at one point
<3> Publius, and publically they still claim that it is
<14> Katey-, and of course the Iraqi's are figuring it out.
<1> What appears solveable ?
<5> 1.5 - 2 trillion has been forecast
<13> so you don't know khin
<1> What are you arguing ?
<10> katey: yes the US is so impotent, and so defeatest.. we should just crawl back under the vietnam spectre rock
<3> Publius, but I don't believe that anyone there really believes that we can fix this before the public runs out of patience with it
<8> Lupine: Israel has recently taken delivery from the US of some 5,000 "smart air launched weapons" including some 500 BLU 109 'bunker-buster bombs. The (uranium coated) munitions are said to be more than "adequate to address the full range of Iranian targets, with the possible exception of the buried facility at Natanz, which may require the [more powerful] BLU-113 bunker buster " The Israeli Air Force would attack Iran's nuclear fa
<2> Katey: I have a few contacts and I have never heard anyone thinking this is a failure...maybe one or two but not even close to the top administrators
<10> jhicks: wiat, you said 2 trillion, now its 1.5 to 2 trillion?
<5> Vietnam was stupid.
<5> Lupine: my OPINION is 2 trillion minimum
<10> Johan: "duh".. I already know that
<2> Kate: That is my opinion
<5> The report was 1.5 to 2
<10> jhicks: right, aka pulled out of your bung
<5> no
<14> Lupine, those estimates of jhicks go up 250 million a day, get used to it
<5> backed up by research
<10> tailor: I know, that is why I told him it is 15trillion now :-)
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