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Comments:
<0> work it out
<1> JanetB your joking
<2> bud thinks calculators > people , he is evil@
<1> JanetB telll me the first step
<0> no I am not
<0> what did they use 150 years ago?
<3> what would happen if all the caculators in the world broke?
<1> KoBushi what the extact value for sqrt(2.455)
<4> Engineers use calculating devices, and always have. It would be appropriate for math departments to teach how real numbers are used in the real world. That is, there are numerical methods for science and engineering that never seem to be taught in math cl***es.
<1> TheTaiIor you use tables
<5> JanetB 150 years ago they didn't calculate the sq root of 2.4 in anything but advanced math courses.
<6> 1.567 of course!
<0> but they did it
<5> no one did Sq Rts in "high school" level cl***es then
<1> JanetB you had to be a looonely
<5> JanetB sure, thru long time involved trial and error... that' sinefficient and moronic when you have tools
<6> my dad learned another algorithm for square roots
<7> They had to invent the pocket calculator to get a man on the moon
<6> actually you can do it by hand, but it takes longer
<1> US-Male would it a exact value
<1> how many decimal palces
<6> gopp as exact as your calculator -- takes longer though
<6> you can get as many digits as you want
<6> it just takes a while
<1> is it easy
<1> how many hours
<0> KoBushi.. I am just saying that gopp is whinning that indian students in visas can do it in there heards or work it our on paper and poor american students can't thus visa should not be allowed cause it makes american students "feel" bad against themselves
<5> Who can tell me, without a calculator, what is the Sin of 2?
<4> Math cl***es have been traditionally taught with "nice" numbers that are easy to calculate with (like sq rt of 9, sine of pi/2, etc.) With calculators, students can learn to deal with real measurements, just as engineers do.
<0> and I say TO bad!
<5> What is the Cos of 2?
<6> there are several ways, the nly one I remember right now is to linearly approximate, then square that if it is high, then you cut teh difference in half
<1> JanetB indians kids do with a calculator also
<5> JanetB I agree... but to say people shouldn't use calculators, and that calculators are somehow to blame for that... is out there imo.
<4> Ironically, "real" math is taught in science and engineering cl***es: use of slide rules, or now calculators, numerical mentods of statistics and regressions, accuracy, etc..
<1> US-Male I do linearly apromaxation
<1> it not that easy
<0> ko.. it start in grade school
<6> I think you can also use a slide rule but I don't recall how
<1> or exact
<0> starts
<1> US-Male a slide rule is a calculator of some sort
<1> not doingn in head
<6> gopp: it is just as exact, since you can get teh same # of digits
<0> kids are told to use caculators instead of leaning basic math skills
<5> JanetB no they aren't
<1> nO they are not
<6> it just takes much longer
<0> yes they are
<1> you can't or should not teach basic math iwth calculator
<5> addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, are not taught with a calculator
<0> yes they are
<6> Cos of an angle, well yeah you can use a protractor I suppose
<5> lol oka whatever :)
<8> Hello #politics !
<6> cos = adjacent/hypotenuse, you can measure that with a ruler =)
<3> JanetB, not here they aren't
<1> KoBushi well I heard some community colleges have allowed calcualtor in basic math course KoBushi
<9> Is that why when I took the GRE it was all standard deviations etc and not at all what I had studied in the book?
<0> TheTaiIor.. well here they are
<9> no calculator allowed lol
<8> Can I past a URL in the channel?
<1> JanetB you got proof
<0> yeah gopp my son is a teacher
<4> A very difficult concept for beginning math students is the "carry". This concept is necessary for substraction. I agree that students should not use calculators before mastering this concept.
<0> my best friend is a teacher
<1> JanetB i TOTOUR basic math before
<6> many good programs allow a calculator only for part of teh exam
<0> and the list they parents are give for "SUPPLIES" they are told to buy!
<1> they where not allowed to use calculatr
<1> US-Male my univeristy won't allow it
<1> at all
<5> my nephew is 11, he still doesn't use a calculator in any of his math cl***es
<8> ok just ignor me then
<1> my professor a republican says
<1> they want us to suffer
<6> at teh beginning "no calculators" then at 12:25 turn in part 1 then "ok take out your calculators"
<1> he argues that using a calculator is progress
<8> second Q Can I post a URL I feel everyone should read ?
<1> he sure is right
<1> if you want the graph of a function
<8> http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/AvianFlu/story?id=1724801
<1> that would be hard to draq
<1> draw KoBushi
<7> my life style does not require a calculator
<4> gopp, is "progress" the only excuse, or are there other reasons?
<1> youwould use it
<1> BlueJeans other reason, like that what youwould use at work
<1> as a engiree
<1> you would use computer software to compute
<1> you don't have 5 hours of computation
<0> and in HS I had to buy my kids some kind of a caculator that did all kinds of weird things
<1> at work
<5> Yeah... kind of hard to calculate a car's suspension geometries on pencil+paper (though it can be done)
<4> gopp, sounds like he has no clue how modern scientific calculators are used.
<1> JanetB wierd things, you mean sign and cos
<0> it cost about 200.00 for the stupid thing
<1> KoBushi it can be done, but that not effecient
<5> yeah, graphing calculators
<1> KoBushi my republican professor is funny
<9> yeah I had one of those too
<1> he said, most of the deparment is liberal
<1> most of the head of deparment stayed in thier office during the nam war
<1> didn't go out
<1> so they did all the hardway, doing math all day
<1> so they would not get drafted
<5> When I was in HS, instead of din my homework I would write programs for my TI to solve the equations for me, and turn those into the teacher in lue of homework
<1> unlike him, who went to nam and worked in the real world
<5> it worked out well :)
<4> gopp, I use an HP28 to find polynomial surface regressions, because it's stinking hard to find approproate software for a computer to do that; nor do we engineers what to carry around a computer to do everyday calculations that a calculator can do.
<2> kobushi you didnt have to show your work?
<7> I do not need a calculator to tell me the high interest rates on credit cards
<6> I still ahve an HP28 =)
<5> redfish I didn't even hav to DO the work
<6> and two HP48's
<6> HP is the best imo
<1> BlueJeans that hp28 is like a computer it computes, and runs software called firmware
<5> redfish just turn in the program I wrote that did it... proof enough that I understood the concepts
<2> kobushi no i mean most teachers require the students write out how they solve the problems
<2> oh
<4> sounds like your professors need to get out of their ivory towers once in a while.
<1> BlueJeans that what my political incorrect republican professor told me
<1> and the cl***
<2> kobushi thats unusual
<9> in fact when I took stats it was here use these 3 buttons and there's your answer
<1> he funny and right most of the time
<5> redfish instead of 50 problems a night, I wrote a TI program, and did the 4 bonus questions as my homework
<1> JanetB even he a republican consertive see the benfit
<1> JanetB right know most our exam use easy numbers
<1> like sqrt (9)
<1> you will never see that in the real world
<1> and linear aporamaxtion takes a while
<7> Calculators do a fine job of telling people how much debt they are in.
<1> they the math deparments sits in thier office up in the ivory tower
<0> gopp.. I really do not care what he does, math was not the topic of conversation
<6> gopp: you know that you can fo the linear approximation as an iterative method, and get teh same accuracy? Students should be made to learn that at least a few times before being allowed to press teh "square root button" to get answers
<5> Rebec yeah, some of the tutors whe I was in Uni just taught the calculator instead of the material... many of thier tutorees didn't do so well on the exam
<1> but using it in basic math
<1> NO
<1> ban them in basic to prealgebra
<0> the topic WAS legal immigration to you should not be allowed cause the kids comming from other countrys are to smart
<4> gopp, another thing your profs may not realize is that the 13+ digit accuracy required for a lot of engineering these days cannot be done by hand easily, nor on a slide rule. The golden gate bridge may have been built using a slide rule, but it is overdesigned by a factor of 3. Can't do that with aerospace stuff: it would be to heavy.
<9> I got a B in stats
<5> Anyway... blaming calculators is silly... te blame for lack of acedemic achievment in the US is societal
<6> first make the kid realy understand it, then let him press teh button to get an answer
<9> course I had a friend help me who taught me the calculus behind it
<5> There is a huge culture of anti-intellectualism in the US, especially among youth
<1> JanetB kids from other country know how to program computers do high advance calculation and graphs (e.g. matlab software).
<5> knowing things is bad, being dumb is cool, etc
<1> JanetB our kids can't even type the first syntax to matlab
<0> gopp.. again to bad
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