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Comments:
<0> Kob: ah, that makes more sense
<0> as different power band sto front/rear would probably play havoc with the vehicle dynamics
<1> oh geez
<1> check this out
<1> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/28/AR2006022801235.html
<1> oh
<2> how long are you supposed to boil a hard-boiled egg for?
<3> hehe yeah there is no Super Duper ULEV rating yet, just SULEV ^_^
<1> is this what you guys were talkin gabout when i joined earlier?
<4> L0c0, OLD NEWS
<4> HAHA
<1> (i read something about gum)
<3> occ I boil them until they float
<5> occ, 45 minutes
<1> Herzen: you're old news
<1> get lost
<6> The Escape hybrid's transition between electric and gasoline power is entirely smooth and transparent
<4> NO U
<7> Hey all..
<5> Mornin' boss
<8> FT: hey
<4> Hi FT
<6> ...and Ford essentially licensed the Escape technology from Toyota, so I'd imagine Toyota has this figured out pretty solidly
<0> l0c0: i think this is the making of a world renowned art critique
<9> hybrids get the same mileage as regular cars, but with less power
<1> *sigh*
<7> Ford may be a major innovator in alternative fuel vehicles.
<3> compdoc wrong
<7> Hi Trimu, Herzen!
<6> compdoc: that's simply false.
<1> new james bond went to bahamas to get sun before shoot....suffering now from "sun poisoning"
<8> Hai
<1> Lupine: haha
<7> Ford is investing a lot of money in research.
<9> lots they advertise on TV get 30mpg - which is no bette
<9> r
<4> fossil fuels are going to be around for a long time
<3> compdoc in what regular car can I get 65mpg city and 70mpg highway?
<1> Lupine: fill a toilet with crap and call it art. Put gum on a picture and it's vandelism
<4> a long time
<7> Hi ++c!
<4> just not in everyday use
<9> KoBushi, whcih car get that?
<3> compdoc my Honda Insight
<1> Lupine: if it was a velvet Elvis, they wouldn't have cared...b/c a velvet Elvis can be had in Mexico for $20
<7> Herzen, at least 100 more years by the best estimators.
<8> GAZA CITY (CNN) -- A senior commander for Palestinian Islamic Jihad was killed in a blast in the heart of Gaza City late Wednesday morning, Palestinian security sources said. <-- good news
<4> u ain't going to drive those giant transport planes, or tanks or heavy machinery etc
<6> compdoc: regular gas Escapes get around 20mpg, the hybrid version gets 30mpg - but that doesn't fully represent the gap, since the hybrid does far better around town, with the gap actually narrowing on long-distance interstate types of driving
<4> on biom*** or elecctric or hybrid
<10> KoBushi: Oh, c'mon.
<6> FT: HOW-D!
<9> well, at 30mpg, might as well skip it - there are normal cars that get that
<7> It takes more BTU's to Create Ethanol than is returned in BTUs of ethanol. Corn ethanol uses more energy that it creates to manufacture it.
<1> President George W. Bush has repeatedly argued that a premature withdrawal from Iraq would dishonour the US troops who have died in Iraq. But a rare opinion poll of US military personnel in Iraq released on Tuesday suggested that only a quarter of US troops agreed with their commander-in-chief.
<0> comp: yea.. 50% improvement in economy.. just skip it
<3> compdoc sure, but you are comparing a hybrid SUV to a regular car :P
<6> compdoc: yes, but not in a small SUV form factor.
<3> FreeTrade that is no longer true
<3> FreeTrade the cellulouce method of ethanol production is ver efficient
<7> Some of these other forms of ethanol could be more efficient, But ethanol is a hidden farm subsidy paid for by tax payers.
<3> very*
<3> Cellulosic Ethanol
<9> I like that idea about coal gasification to produce clean diesel fuel
<7> And Ethanol has a market limit of about 1% of fuel capacity for the nation and thats pushing it.
<1> FT: ironic...we pay for it to be grown/produced...then we have to pay to use it
<6> FT: The idea of using biofuels has lots of promise, but in its present incarnation, ethanol is a political scam imposed by midwestern farm state interests
<7> It ends up with about 2/3ds the energy that produced it.
<10> Even the EPA doesn't claim mileage that high. Their numbers for a manual transmission Insight are 60 city and 66 highway.
<3> Cellulosic Ethanol is not a scan
<7> Some of it I believe is actually made by burning oil
<3> Pickle and?
<0> Well, our P***at Wagon gets about 37-38mpg.. and i bet its as large interior as the Escape
<7> I dont trust mileage stickers.. They are more like guides I guess.
<0> Pickle: he's got the "special" one.. the one honda refuses to sell to the rest of us ;-)
<3> Pickle EPA estimates for my Geo Storm were lower than what I got as well
<3> Lupine no, I just know how to drive :)
<6> Pickle: One of the fascinating things about most hybrids (including the Escape) is that they come with real-time updated fuel efficiency monitoring gauges, and you can directly see feedback from the way you drive and the type of driving (city, long highway) you're doing, and avg speed, and your gas mileage.
<10> KoBushi: And the EPA pads the mileage numbers for hybrids upwards.
<3> Some people have over 80mpg lifetime on ther Insight... I don't go that far though
<7> KoBushi There is a potential for ethanol from sources other than corn. But Corn Ethanol is not a real long term alternative.
<6> not that this sort of gauge monitoring is rare in gas-only cars.
<0> ++C: alot of regular cars have that
<3> Pickle no they don't, they test them the same as they do other cars... but most people don't see those #s because they don't drive the speed limit, and drive idioticlly
<10> KoBushi: Sure.
<6> Lupine: I know, but it isn't so consistently a standard feature on regular cars, though some have it.
<0> ++C: well, most hybrids are also higher-trim level
<3> Pickle want me to DCC you a picture of my dash from a trip? I think I have it on my comp somewhere here..
<5> FT, there are some people that really believer ethanol from corn is going to be a big winner.
<7> ++C I wish I had than on my Honda which last time got 16 mpg
<7> than = that
<5> FT, and for a long time to come/
<5> .
<10> KoBushi: No... I'm looking at real numbers from Insight drivers as reported by the EPA, which average 60 mpg.
<7> TT, For one thing there isnt enough harvestable land to grow corn to meet the demands of any major market
<6> Lupine: not the Ford Escape - the hybrid version is exactly the same body as the "flying brick" gas version. It could be a lot more efficient with better streamlining
<3> Pickle I get significantly better than that rating
<7> I think our best bet immediately is to start building as many a 100 more nuclear plants ASAP
<0> Heh. Our p***at has far more luggage room than the escape hybrid 39cf ft versus 27cf so, the p***at has more room, better fuel economy.. and a hell of alot better driving car
<5> FT, they aren't trying to replace fossil fuels, they want it to be an additive, and are sure they will sell every drop they produce.
<7> There are nuclear reactors now which can stop on a dime.
<5> FT, nuke plants won't drive cars.
<7> In other words the risk is 100000000000000000000000:1 of any problem
<11> they did on The Jetsons
<3> Pickle even when I fill the car OVER it's rated weight limit and drive over the MOUNTAINS, I get 60mpg highway
<7> There is a beam method which when the beam is removed the fission process immediately stops
<0> btw: I saw a test done back in the early 90s.. they got a Honda CRX HF at close to 100miles per gallon. Of course, they had to drive in such a ridiculous fashion.
<7> So risk of meltdown is no longer much of a risk and it was always exageratted.
<3> TheTailor no, but nuke plantes can provide electricity to make Cellulose Ethanol w/o using oil
<7> Cheronbyl was much worse than was neccesary because the first instinct of their government was to deny it.
<6> FT: The most significant remaining problem for fissile nuclear power is what to do with the waste - including all the radioactive equipment and building parts when a plant eventually gets decommissioned.
<7> They could of capped it quickly if it were say in america.
<3> Lupine I just drive the speed limit; it's really simple
<7> Sealed it
<7> Also it was a very poor design.
<0> Kob: well, where I am at, you are a road hazard then :P
<7> with faulty engineering.
<0> btw: at least for an ICE.. steady speed is very wasteful, as shown in that study
<3> Lupine hell, even at 70mph I often can cruise at 75mpg :)
<7> ++C, yeah but we dont really need to solve the problem of waste, we simply need to store it for eternity.
<7> And store it in a way which is safe.
<10> KoBushi: And I can't speak to the insight specifically, but Consumer Reports has been testing hybrids in general and finding their mileage numbers to fall short of what the carmakers OR the EPA are advertising.
<7> Yucca Mountain fits the bill.
<6> FT: Yes, many of the early reactor designs were vulnerable to catastrophic failure, and it's those that have caused the image of potential dager in an operative plant
<0> they'ld zip up, full throttle to close to 90mph.. then shut off the engine and coast and coast and coast, and start it up at like 5mph, zip back up.. so a normal every day car got 100+mpg
<10> http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Autos/story?id=1274541
<3> Pickle they find the same for ALL cars. Not just hybrids
<12> Good morning from Canada
<6> FT: Um...it's the "where and how" to store it for eternity that's the hard part.
<10> KoBushi: Which doesn't change the fact that the EPA numbers are overblown, not understated.
<3> Pickle but I *CAN* speak for the Insight, I own one. and I get far better tha the EPA estimates
<7> ++C Cheronbyl was way worse than it had to be even with its faulty design.. The manner of reaction and the attempt instinctively to deny it or downplay it caused much worse damage.
<0> well, consumer report drivers cna't drive for ****.. especially when they test acceleration and handling.
<3> Pickle my wife, on the other hand, gets less than th EPA estimates when she drives it... understandin ho to drive the car makes a m***ive difference.
<0> FT: plus, the training techniques they used compounded it. i.e. they would not fully train the workers, to be able to cope with emergencies.
<10> KoBushi: Well, I suppose it's possible that the EPA is overstating mileage for every hybrid except the Insight... But I doubt it.
<3> Pickle nor does it change the fact of what MPG I average
<7> And Cheronobyl, has had nothing of the long term effects scientists predicted at the tieme.
<0> FT: their training is to limit knowledge, so if things happen that are not in the manual.. well, yer ****ed
<3> Pickle I have exceeded the MPG estimate of the EPA on every car I have ever owned
<6> FT: I'd agree that with modern plant design, that the "eternal" problem of waste is the remaining major stumbling block.
<3> well... except for my 73 Impala, I never checked it's milage
<0> pickle: he grandmother's his cars..
<7> The people closest to the plant had the worst effects obviously and I forget now something like 13 died almost instantly..
<0> ++C: naw, that was solved with Yucca
<10> KoBushi: Which obviously suggests your driving style is atypical and therefore not really what we should judge the vehicle by.
<7> But the effects even tetrogenic were not near what was expected, not that many more birth defects than in a similar demographic.
<3> *shrug* You don't want to see any evidence that dosn't fit with your view Pickle, so whatever :)
<6> Lupine: the jury's still out on Yucca. It may not be as impervious to intermittent groundwater intrusion/movement as claimed.
<10> KoBushi: You are brainwashed. You remind me of a Macintosh cultist when you talk about hybrids.
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