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Comments:
<0> "Before we had Linux, the first free kernel, every program depended on a non-free kernel."
<0> bull honkey
<0> http://www.cpm.z80.de/small_c.html
<1> reuben- what are you reading?
<1> how's this year's summer of code coming along?
<2> jared?
<0> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html
<0> i appreciate the spirit of RMS, but he has his facts wrong
<1> reuben- rms is talking about free as in the gnu license
<1> reuben- hence, public domain isn't free
<0> how could it be any more free than public domain?
<1> reuben- so before the gnu anything, there wasn't anything that was free as in gnu :)
<1> reuben- you're allowed to use public domain and create closed source
<0> you are also allowed to use it and create open source
<2> public domain gives you the right to restrict someone elses software
<2> the GPL denies that right
<0> public domain gives you the right to deny that right
<0> as in, you can take a piece of PD s/w, do some work on it, and GPL that
<1> yes
<1> but that's not gnu free
<0> so you actually have more liberties with PD than with GPL
<0> it is more free than gnu free
<2> hm. does PD allow changing the license (e.g. to GPL)?
<1> rms would argue that gpl guarantees sustainable freedom
<1> PD doesn't have a license
<0> hubertEF: sure it does, look at the disney renditions of public domain stories
<0> mspo: sustainable freedom existed long before the politics of the GPL
<1> reuben- not according to rms, which is why he makes those arguments
<1> reuben- which, if you ask me, are pretty silly
<0> the single valid argument i see for the GPL is if I release something PD, an unethical company releases the same thing restricted, then sues me for my own work
<1> you could prove prior art
<0> am i guilty until proven innocent?
<0> there were hints of that valid argument in the older writings of RMS
<0> frustration at being legally pursued over one's own work
<0> esp. on work that is a team effort
<0> http://cr.yp.to/writing/ieee.html
<0> holy cow that's evil
<3> 'professional organisations' like the IEEE have a certain business model they want to maintain
<3> the ACM is much the same, I believe.
<1> when you do research for a university, you'll probably lose it
<1> as he university has sold your time to a company
<3> in most cases they'll claim work performed in 'their' time as their intellectual property, yes
<1> these are guys who publish papers that their student's prepared for them and then get pissed when the company who paid them (via the university) starts selling it :)
<1> there's a guy on pbs building a cabin by hand
<1> looks like a video from the 60's or 70's
<3> a log cabin?
<1> yep
<1> alaska, possibly
<3> sounds cool
<1> it's serious :)
<3> there's something about the survivalist lifestyle that's very appealing to me
<1> the solidtude?
<3> probably because I'm an unathletic, pale, desk-bound geek
<3> but yeah, the solitude seems nice too
<1> michie1- you're going to need some muscles to build your own house
<1> with hand tools :)
<3> hmm, that sounds tiresome already
<3> I'd probably get wood splinters in my fingers, too
<3> ouch
<1> you have to do that along with hunting, fishing, planting, etc
<3> can't I just buy lots of canned soup?
<1> yeah
<1> michie1- now he's searching for the trees to use for his roof :)
<3> excellent
<3> I'm off to bed, though, it's 2 am-ish here :)
<1> 'night
<1> oh, it's fund-drive time
<1> that's why they're showing cool stuff
<4> I need MacOS 8.6
<1> not 9?
<1> smultron is a nice text editor
<4> this 6360 can't boot a cd after 8.6
<4> but can be upgraded to 9.x from 8.6
<1> I don't have it
<1> and can't seem to find it
<4> s'cool
<1> I thought apple had some of their old os's available for download at one point
<5> blah
<4> mspo: 7.something is the latest I think
<6> i wouldnt even know where to find 8.6
<6> and you do mean 8.6 as in cl***ic and not 8.6.0, right?
<4> yes
<6> i can ask around at work
<6> someone might have it laying around
<6> ~.
<1> <yawn>
<7> yawn yawn
<8> g'morning
<2> ober: that's the idea
<9> Ober: ofcourse you can't use things like a boot rom in it, but otherwise they should work
<1> heya
<1> hmm
<1> I just got myself invited to a call about tuning ldap servers for the T2000 with sun
<1> should be interesting
<10> i c
<8> mspo: that ldap mailinglist thing you are talking about the other day?
<1> scardinal- the openldap lists?
<8> yeah ?
<1> yeah, those are the mailing lists I"m on :)
<8> mspo: hehe but does it have anything to do with the invite ?
<1> oh, no
<8> ahh okay :D
<1> it has a lot to do with buying a lot of sun hardware and not being able to get a certain piece of software to use more than 40% of the cpu
<8> sounds interesting
<1> well
<1> I don't know why we're calling sun
<1> since it's not sunOne
<1> but I'll listen in and try to glean any tips I can get
<1> since I'm deploying a bunch of T-series boxes
<8> mspo: good idea
<8> mspo: are you running solaris then ?
<1> scardinal- of course
<1> netbsd barely handles SMP
<1> nevermind 32 cores of numa :)
<1> scardinal- and you don't get to schedule calls with sun to ask about netbsd tuning either
<1> it's unfortunate, for sure
<8> hehe
<8> I don't like solaris... sorry
<1> oh well. I do :)
<8> mspo: shame on you ;)
<1> I don't think there's any shame in liking solaris
<1> it's a really good os
<8> mspo: yeah there is.. has to be.. :))
<1> netbsd is often trying to emulate its features :)
<8> mspo: uhm... damnit!
<8> :)
<1> especially the lots of little locks philosophy
<2> scardinal: what's the matter with solaris?
<8> mspo: I guess it's okay.. I just think it's too slow and I really don't like it's runlevel structure...
<8> but I guess the slow part is because of the hardware...
<1> the runlevel structure is going away
<8> mspo: oh ? what are they working on ?
<1> they have a services management thinggy
<8> mspo: sounds so linux *brr*
<1> I wonder if there's any interest in porting osx's launchd to netbsd
<8> I like the system netbsd's got now
<8> clean.. efficient.. easy
<2> http://www.feyrer.de/Texts/Troja/tabaluga-2y.jpg
<1> it's a little too serial, I think
<2> ^- solaris/x86 on our student login box, which was HEAVILY pounded at times
<2> yet it made 2 years of uptime :)
<1> we had some boxes like that
<8> hubertEF: hehe :D
<1> scardinal- I'd like it if netbsd's rc could start things in parallel and in the background
<8> mspo: like several of the same daemons ?
<1> so ssh keygen couldn't hold-up the rest of the boot
<2> 1 year uptime: http://www.feyrer.de/Texts/Troja/tabaluga-365days.jpg
<1> scardinal- sure
<8> mspo: I guess I'd be happy just having SMP ;)
<1> scardinal- even more reason to have more systems work in parallel
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