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Comments:
<0> man, learning a little c has made me a much better programmer :)
<0> I just solved this weird recursion problem I was having
<1> :-)
<0> and it was a lot easier to visualize the problem because of c
<1> Hubert did a good job
<2> oi, sup folks
<0> "This is like a sort algorithm. I just need to keep track of the current array pointer."
<0> sub- there's more bad c on the horizon for me ;)
<0> MadScribe- heya
<3> you've flipped a bit, mspo
<1> mspo, at least you're learning
<0> indeed
<0> okay, I'm going home
<0> hopefully my internet will stay up for more than thirty minutes
<2> heh
<2> i'm not liking the sound of that
<2> i like reliable internet where i live
<0> heya
<4> hi mspo
<4> i'm learning java
<0> :)
<5> reuben: sorry to hear that ;)
<0> charter == worthless
<4> TGEN: why?
<5> reuben: I don't think Java is all it's cracked up to be
<5> reuben: learning Python would be better imho
<4> TGEN: python won't run on very small devices, will it?
<0> it works on nokias
<5> too bad everyone and their mother seems to require Java experience
<4> TGEN: I found a JVM for MS-DOS
<5> reuben: there's even a Python compiler for PIC microcontrollers :)
<4> TGEN: that's news to me
<5> Pyastra
<4> theoretically, i should be able to use jython to get python going on a JVM
<4> pastra looks awesome
<6> Java isn't awesome, but nobody claims it is :)
<4> i remember reading for years that java outperformed python
<5> it probably does, because of the multitude of support that's backing it
<5> think BAE and such
<6> pure-Java is probably still faster than pure-Python
<4> michie1: not to mention GJC
<4> the GJC option makes me wonder what the drawback of Java, as a language, is
<4> TGEN: how does pyastra handle memory allocation and garbage collection?
<5> reuben: no idea
<5> :)
<4> i have to wonder if they dropped the OO part of Python
<4> "There's no dynamical typing yet."
<4> oh no, dynamical
<4> the TODO leads me to believe there is no garbage collection
<5> well, there's hardly room for that on an average PIC
<4> yes
<4> so i wonder if there are even objects, or if it is just a flat main() type thing
<4> "bject-oriented languages bring third dimension in your model!"
<4> leads me to believe it is at least a goal
<5> I'd say so, otherwise they could've used old Perl better
<0> old perl? :)
<4> i suspect i would prefer Java's AWT over Python's TK
<4> hard to believe python's native widget set lacks combo boxes and collapsible trees
<0> python/tk is less useful than python/wx
<4> mspo: python/tk is what you get when you install python
<0> reuben- uninstall it and use python/wx :)
<0> reuben- does it also install tcl?
<4> mspo: i also think tk is more portable than wx
<0> reuben- perl/tk is better because they rewrote all of the tcl parts of tk in perl
<0> reuben- I'm not sure python/tk did that
<0> wx is pretty good
<0> as far as portability goes
<0> fltk is good too
<0> tk would be really cool if it didn't require tcl
<4> it looks like i am misinformed, at least pkgsrc python does not bundle tk
<4> does python give an option to save the bytecode, so you avoid compiling the same code multiple times?
<7> reuben: python automatically saves the bytecode
<7> what do you think all those ".pyc" files are?
<4> i haven't tried using python yet, so haven't seen .pyc files
<0> reuben- I think python uses a just in time compiler, so it isn't too bad
<4> mspo: down the road, i might want to compile on big fast machine and run on little wimpy machine
<0> reuben- perl has perlc
<0> reuben- which is a native executable
<4> i've had enough perls
<0> okay :)
<0> reuben- try c++, it's pretty fast
<0> or java :)
<0> reuben- java 1.4+ has NIO, which is super fast
<4> mspo: i think java will be kinder and gentler to me than c++ would be
<4> http://jdx.sourceforge.net/ heh, requires linux kernel
<4> then why make it in java?
<8> wow: http://lug.oregonstate.edu/gallery/firefox-crop-circle/mg_5560
<5> mspo: Java is way better than C++ imho
<4> seems to be more java than c++ acticity at apache.org
<0> apache loves java
<8> java is just the hype
<0> it's been the hype for a while now
<4> hubertef: i think it is less hype than it used to be, which is why i am willing to give it a shot
<4> hubertef: now that gnu cl***path is covering most of it, and we have free compilers, jvm's, etc.
<4> the language itself.. so far i can't complain
<0> there are probably more java jobs than anything
<4> i plan to use this in my hobby
<8> reuben: where do i get a free java compiler/jvm/whatever?
<9> java.sun.com
<4> hubertef: pkgsrc/lang/kaffe
<8> reuben: has that p***ed the sun certification test to deserve being called 'java'?
<4> hubertef: i have seen another pkgsrc developer fix bugs in pkgsrc/lang/sablevm
<4> hubertef: does netbsd get to call itself unix?
<4> yet i use netbsd as i would use unix
<5> hubertEF: you prefer C++ over Java>
<5> ?
<8> yeah, and you advertize notJava as if it was java, right :(
<8> tgen: neither.
<4> kaffe is free java like netbsd is free unix
<4> i have no moral qualms with that
<5> hubertEF: if I had to choose, I'd choose Java over C++ any day :)
<8> reuben: so it's hasn't p***ed the Sun test suite
<8> tgen: possibly - C++ plain ****s (due to no useful cl***es)
<4> TGEN: with one exception, i've seen some tight code written in C++, as in it performs better than the nearest C code I could find
<8> before i use c++ i stick to C
<4> hubertef: correct, it hasn't
<4> hubertef: neither has netbsd p***ed the open group's tests
<4> it aims for posix, but it isn't posix
<8> reuben: and your point is ...?
<4> a free workalike that treats me more kindly than the alternative, well that's what i'll use
<8> yeah, and my question still is: how much alike is kaffee etc. to sun's java?
<8> how much trouble will i have trying to run a 'real' java app on it?
<4> hubertef: you will have trouble
<8> ***uming that all the world develops java on 'real' java and uses all the features
<4> hubertef: however i am not trying to run a 'real' app, i'm just trying to write an app, and so long as it will run on a real JRE, i'm happy
<8> mhm.
<4> i would also point out that gnu cl***path and kaffe have come a long way since i first checked them out
<4> i expect they won't stop
<4> i remember when i first checked out gnome, running it on a 486 w/ 8mb ram, this was way before 1.0, and it just ****ed
<4> i didn't expect it would have as much steam put into it as has been
<6> of course, there are rumors that Sun wil Open Source its jvm, possibly even under the GPL
<4> we'll see
<4> 10 years ago they promised ANSI and ISO standards for Java
<10> java...
<4> http://slackware.com/faq/do_faq.php?faq=general#0 =)
<4> which way is that?
<4> "Before we had the GNU C compiler, every C program (free or not) depended on a non-free C compiler."
<4> bull honkey
<4> free compilers existed before 1987
<0> wasn't borland free?
<0> djbcc?
<4> borland was not free software
<4> djgpp postdates gcc
<0> are you talking about free, or "free" ?
<4> the source code to the small-c compiler was published in dr dobb's in 1980
<4> free as in you get the source and if it breaks you keep botth pieces
<4> in fact it is better than GPL: it is public domain
<4> "Before we had Linux, the first free kernel, every program depended on a non-free kernel."
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