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Comments:
<0> I have only played Graal Online.
<0> Hehe.
<1> i cannot seem to follow
<2> rest you can just patch the problem with textures is the large size of them... so you can put whatever things you want onto yer patch server.
<1> is this somehow related to jlos question?
<0> And Active Worlds.
<0> Not really...
<0> If you ask me.
<1> k
<2> i'm trying to think on jlo's question more...
<3> my question is: is constant db updating/reading the way to go. or should i be caching maybe or using some for of persisant object storage
<2> never really ran into IO problems unless you hit 3K people on a server, and that was CPU issues.
<1> well he needs to identify his possible bottlenecks
<1> i think he hasn't done that yet
<1> jlo: that depends on data structure
<2> and how complex your game is
<2> I can tell you from experience Hard files saved everquest from becoming toast, but it was early tech..
<1> how did they sync those files?
<2> if your character data is perty flat..
<2> depends which files you are dealing with.
<1> mount partitions over network?
<3> dealing with bottlenecks is a long way off
<3> its only ever been tested with 1 user so far
<2> retro, several actualy :)
<1> narris: yeah that's a pretty common aproach to fix such problems ;)
<2> yea, well when I got there they had no ops dept :)
<2> I had to hack everything and there was no remote adminstration
<2> each zone on each world had to be started manualy from a link on a desktop chained together with rose boxes.
<2> EQ was hell and took me years to sort it out :)
<1> you eventually run into race conditions when using files as data storage
<1> hehe oh my
<2> race?
<4> i think race is to the swift
<2> splain the context of race in that..
<1> instance1 writes into file, while instance2 tries to read
<2> nah
<2> you can avoid that.
<1> locking?
<2> hell no
<1> hehehe 8)
<2> if you locked a file and something tried to heh
<1> what did you do?
<2> worked with coders, the way the world, zone and data structure was put together, I turned it into build a eq server outta any box
<2> turn a whole world into a render farm and back again etc.
<2> since it was all flat files and exported data, it was just m***ive amounts of data and being anal.
<3> sounds crazy
<2> that and I had no ***istants for years till verant got aquired into SOE.
<2> the early mmos were a mess :)
<2> UO was even worse.
<3> screw storage, ill build with the ***umption my application will never crash!
<3> ;)
<2> hah, they will always crash.
<2> I can give you horror stories
<2> hell character data, when I got there was stored on 3 raid drives per world.
<2> only problem every server was a normal case.
<3> yeah been involved in quite a few myself
<3> long nights
<2> so they had network racks, with cases stuffed in them
<2> no airflow temp inside was over 100 :)
<3> lol
<2> and the raid drives were stacks on TOP of eachother
<2> and yes you have constant read access on the drives, if you shut them down like that they fail or worse..
<2> melt
<2> and it ment you could easly loose 2 drives in a array.
<5> sounds like fools playing at IT
<2> it was people that had never built a server before making a game that got way to popular..
<5> heh
<2> if you saw EQ alpha it had a mode that looked like duke nukem 3d's over head view ;)
<5> :]
<5> mornin fly :)
<2> and they started bcak in 96..
<2> hell 95 even
<6> its fwyday! its fwyday!
<2> it was a long time ago :) I was only 20 when runnin ops for them.
<5> cool, Narris :)
<2> nah...
<2> I did way too much, so i had no life :) experience was worth it, but all I can talk about that time is what not to do and what to do..
<5> yeah I hear that heh
<2> instead of all the fun i had doing other stuff ;)
<5> yep :)
<2> my work ethic is a bit crazy tho.
<2> since QA is my other hobby, I ended up doing large amounts of QA on my own.
<2> plus in a mmo, its a lot harder for QA to do their job when they can't access all the things they should.
<2> so everyone checked their own work, and I had to monitor everything to make sure test didn't break before it went to release.
<2> was a really small operation for the scale, things went great till they hired m*** amounts of people :)
<2> then it went 100% political
<2> i got no respect for people that just simply goto a company to carve out their own nest and sit there.
<5> heh
<2> its how bad games get made.
<5> indeed
<2> heh i've been on titles where I wanted to remove my name from the credits I felt the game ****ed that badly lol
<5> heh
<2> spend 3 years and 10 mil...
<2> well more than 10 mil I think cause they leveraged their company
<7> Narris, you a SOE slave?
<2> hell no :)
<2> former.. :)
<7> Ah, where are you now?
<2> cant say.
<7> k.
<7> But more MMO stuff.
<7> ?
<2> nope, not at this point.
<2> nobody is doing whats needed :)
<7> How long since you were at SOE?
<2> lets see 2002, 2003... one of those
<2> if I were to take another mmo job, it'd be for someone that actually wants to break grounds..
<7> Narris. I've always wanted to try and verify something, and this may have been out of your scope. I belive that Galazies is a marketing/PR success, but I think it's a financial disaster, for SOE.
<7> Galazies->Galaxies
<0> What is a SOE?
<4> a SOE is the worst mmorgp makers in history
<2> well I'll put to you that a bigger marketing/pr success before release was MS's job on Fable
<7> Ah, okay, so you don't know. Thanks.
<2> but far as development and financial disaster, totaly agree but these
<2> I do know... I was just hitting each part :P
<2> development wise SOE invested way way too much into SWG for what came outta it.
<0> What's SOE?!
<2> and its tech, core wise isn't being used by any other game for the most part.
<7> Sony Online Entertainment, San Diego
<0> Hrm :S
<2> so from a buisness end it would be failure, specialy from the angle they started at.
<2> n the SWG, we stuck them in MY office like 5 of them when they first got there hehe was funny like sardines..
<2> randel, and swg was a bigger waste than Soverign on the books.
<2> :P
<7> Well originally Galaxies was budgeted for $8 mill, and Smedley let it crawl to over $12. Then, I understand, that over %50 of the subscription revenue is being ****ed by Lucas. Having done some break-even analysis on MMOs, myself, it means that this is nothing but a PR welfare project that is a profit loss for SOE.
<2> it came to more than 12.
<2> you forgot to add hardware.
<8> HA
<2> which was added excuse to expand the infrastructure of SOE.
<8> Sony ruined SWG
<8> they deserve to go bankrupt
<7> Narris, right, the data centers outside San Diego.
<2> no just outside, but inside too.
<2> then the failed launch in japan ;)
<2> add in more things man.
<7> Narris, that brings up another couple of problems I observed. The original EQ servers were Wintel boxes. The other mistake was that at the time, late 90s, San Diego was still not a major us ISP POP location and was the wrong place for 2 500 server data centers.
<2> hey I ran those :P
<7> heh, sorry...
<2> its sokay, but okay I predicted their launch problems... but back then they had no clue about anything
<2> NOBODY did
<2> not even cisco.
<2> far as how performance for any of this stuff.
<2> they thought a couple t1 lines would be enough...
<7> LOL
<8> lol
<2> San Diego because of EQ got its pipe increased expodentialy
<2> they ran fiber from LA to SD just to acomidate things.
<7> Smedley told me in 1999/2000 time frame that since L.A. was overloaded, you guys had to have AT&T backhaul an OC3 all the way from San Francisco.
<2> yep
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