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Comments:
<0> aye, I like the patterns, but sometimes that doesn't work so hot, especially with the topic of my primary concern: Integrating a wholistic workflow.
<1> dude scenegraph
<1> :-P
<1> ^.^
<1> ^_^
<0> clarify scenegraph?
<1> -_^
<0> O_o
<1> oh hm
<1> hehe
<0> this is the point in time when I want you to explain something =]
<1> well its a acyclic directed graph
<1> which just means that it heads downward and doesn't circle back on its parents
<1> also no many to ones, just ones to many
<0> how does that help me? Is it better than my crazy paging/octree scene manager I'm considering frankenstiening?
<1> and what you can do is store shaders, geometry, VSDs, transformations, interpolations in the nodes
<1> and they affect nodes under them
<0> oh
<2> gnite
<1> so for example a rotation or a translation or a scale would affect all its children
<0> yah, but that doesn't help me with the technicalities of executing my world.
<1> or a shader would be applied to all its children, under which there could be layered other shaders
<1> or multi-texturing
<0> do you look at your keyboard while you type, or the screen? =]
<1> you can only have geometry at leaf nodes
<1> the screen, why?
<0> heh, just curious. go on if you wish. =]
<1> you can also store entire PVS systems into the graph
<3> I only keep self-contained objects + transforms in the scene graph
<1> like tossing a BSP in
<3> much easier to sort geometry "chunks" later
<1> to one of the nodes
<3> using radix sort
<1> which can then contain say... a castle
<1> and then anyone in the castle, exists under that node
<0> okay now that's interesting.
<3> having too much info in the scene graph can make things a lot more complicated
<1> along with tables, and tapestries, etc.
<1> the root node of the scenegraph represents the entire world
<0> hm... okay so I'm already kinda covered because Ogre has a built-in scene graph
<1> which has some arbitrary size
<3> palisade, you recommend storing bones used in skeletal animation in the scenegraph too? :S
<1> Epoch`_: roger
<0> it's the scene manager I'm researching now
<1> swx: well skeletal systems are their own scenegraph
<0> *if your familiar with ogre at all
<1> so no i consider that separate
<1> but the mesh they affect would be stored in the scenegraph
<3> good, you're not entirely scenegraph crazy then :)
<1> hehe
<1> well its good for some things and not others
<1> which is why we have things like octrees, kdtrees, portals, bsps, etc.
<1> oh and BVHs are neat
<1> Epoch`_: i know of ogre by name never used it tho
<0> http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/SceneManagersFAQ#DotSceneOctree_SceneManager_.28ogreaddons.29 -this is the list I'm primarily mulling over
<1> yikes you have to split up meshes for the octree
<0> I like the PagingSceneManager, but it looks like it's optimized more for hieightmap made levels, instaed of geometry-based levels
<3> look at how Oblivion did it
<1> i would use a loose octree and not split
<3> they have a making of movie
<0> swx, oblivian still has load times... the paging isn't as dynamic as I'd like
<1> loose octrees use more ram but you get major performance improvement for dynamic moving objects
<1> because the it takes longer for an vertex to travel back to a node after it has crossed the boundary
<0> palisade, I don't mind manually splitting the meshes, really... because my design tool has a limited outer bounds
<1> whereas with a regular octree, travel between the two nodes is immediate
<3> Epoch, they could probably treat the indor levels the same way as the landscape, its probably to make it easier to edit stuff, and for AI purposes
<0> swx, that's what I'm hoping
<1> the load time for me in oblivion is 5 to 10 seconds
<0> it also seems great for indoor/outdoor transitions
<0> palisade, my load time is ideally NONE
<0> ever play world of warcraft?
<1> nope
<1> but i know what you're talking about
<1> seamless loading
<0> aye, that's exactly it.
<1> its not a new concept which is why its silly oblivion can't do it
<1> ;-)
<3> Dungeon Siege ;)
<3> 1 & 2
<1> ya
<4> oblivion does not strike me as... advanced technology.
<0> aye, I need it. it's part of the design of the game.
<1> _nv: its damn good
<1> but the guys who programmed it are definitely newbs
<3> heh
<4> it's a good game, but technology wise it's poor
<1> hehe
<1> ;-)
<1> actually they only had one real programmer
<1> rest were scripters
<4> surprise
<3> Oblivion uses Game Bryo?
<1> ya
<4> I went into the vampire caves near Imperial. Got to the boss, and just as I killed him, my game froze up.
<1> someone said the lead programmer visited here
<5> i notice a lot of the time npc's attack each other instead of me
<1> the day before it went gold
<3> nah, a GUI coder
<4> palisade, I saw that, but I wonder if he was genuine.
<1> which i think is l33t
<1> ;-)
<1> i bet he learned a lot from here
<4> He said that oblivion had no cheats...
<1> yikes
<3> he said you could cheat using the console
<4> which isn't precisely true
<4> oh
<3> but that it didnt have any key combos
<3> so no cheating for xbox iirc
<1> ahhhhh
<4> The level system is so bizarre in oblivion.
<1> ya there's a mod to fix that
<3> I had a bug when fighting the Gray Prince ;)
<4> oh?
<1> www.tessource.net
<1> good mod place for oblivion
<4> Gray Prince = vulnerable to fire
<3> he ran towards me, then then I ran to the right, he just stood there
<3> :P
<4> 3 or 4 of the arena fights had that happen to me
<4> So I just sat there and flamed them
<1> ya i had that happen once
<1> in a dungeon
<1> the dude got caught on a wall and couldn't get to me
<3> but this was a pure AI bug
<1> obviously the path planning is gay
<3> not a collision detection issue or something
<1> actually for the most part its been good
<3> but thats the only severe AI issue I can remember
<1> ya same
<3> got myself stuck in a wall one time ;)
<1> i liked the bruma mage guild quest
<1> that was neat
<1> i've never gotten stuck yet
<3> havent played that one yet, concentrated on the Arena and Dark Brotherhood
<1> i save every five seconds hehe
<3> me too :)
<1> i have like 1100 saves now
<3> have like 900 saves, and Im only on level 14
<1> Save 1108 - Palisade - Bruma, Level 19, Playing Time 59.22.37.ess
<1> i pwn you swx
<1> ;-)
<3> I used to save before and after each lockpicking
<1> lol
<1> wow
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