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Comments:
<0> :)
<0> I think Futurama is supposed to come on
<0> forgot when
<1> so dayna what's the budget for this website you're doing?
<2> all that beautiful mountain scenery!
<2> I'd swap with Dayna in a heartbeat
<1> ditto
<0> in that town?
<3> protektor: about $100
<0> she's like in the middle of nowhere
<0> When I retire I *am* moving to Seattle
<0> that I decided long ago
<1> DaynaGirl: www.templatemoster.com
<3> I went from 1.75million to 89k people.
<4> Tucker^: You got me thinking... what the heck is SharePoint, anyway?
<0> www.microsoft.com/sharepoint
<1> er http://www.templatemonster.com/
<0> SirPsycho microsoft's content management system
<0> the latest version is now called MOSS
<4> Tucker^: Is it a separate product, or is it included with Windows Server 2003?
<0> there is Sharepoint 2003 but it was replaced in December
<0> it's now a part of MOSS
<0> Microsoft Office Server somethingorother
<4> Okay, then what's MOSS?
<4> ahh
<4> Separate product, then?
<1> this thing that grows on old Windows 2000 server's
<0> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepointserver/FX100492001033.aspx
<4> No, I think you're confusing it with MOLD
<0> Microsoft Office Sharepoint Server
<0> i see microsoft.com has been redone
<0> it's all web 2.0'ish
<0> <-- working for one of only 3 firms in the United States that is doing NOTHING but Sharepoint development
<0> well... on paper, the other half of our company does osisoft.com
<0> and writes all their software
<0> for network appliances
<0> Sharepoint basically means you don't focus anymore on writing pages from scratch... you write web parts that plug into web pages
<0> the pages can be written by stupid people in a corporate environment
<4> I was wondering what the hell web parts were.
<0> then they drag your web parts into the page where they need them, and it "just works"
<2> thread, glue, spindle, etc. :-)
<0> right
<1> lol
<0> you don't start off with <html><body></body></html> anymore
<0> instead, you start off with public cl*** MyPart : WebPart { void Render(HtmlTextWriter output) { } }
<4> Oh, well, that's obviously a huge improvement. :P
<0> :D
<2> I 4got one: spinnerette
<4> Stupid angle brackets.
<0> SirPsycho: sort of... it's a better seperation of content and functionality
<0> the content people are the ones who live in MSOutlook all day and don't know ****
<0> the web parts go to gurus
<4> What's the Big Problem that SharePoint is trying to solve?
<2> mr Hiro's being ordered home...
<0> SirPsycho: managing sites that literally have terabytes of content
<0> SirPsycho: like my client (pmi.org)
<0> Project Management Institute's site is a bloody ****ing mess
<4> Hmmmm. That doesn't sound like us. All we'll have is a bunch of PDF files.
<2> that bearded man sounds like David Tennent! man thats scary!
<4> Tucker^: That's a great advertisement for your services, then. ;)
<0> SirPsycho: MOSS includes the same searching engine that MSN uses, it also scans and indexes PDFs/office, etc... just like the Google appliance
<4> Oh, I see. I'm guessing that would be major overkill for us.
<0> It is
<0> it's costly
<0> $10,000/seat.
<4> *barf*
<0> it's aimed solely at Fortune 1000
<0> It's pretty powerful though
<0> corporate drones keep their fingers out of programming
<0> programmers keep their hands off the style/design
<0> As a web part programmer, all you do when you draw up the HTML output of the aprt is to insert CSS attributes where you need to, and let the web content people set the CSS properties on their own
<0> or use the CSS catalogues in Sharepoint already
<4> I'm rewriting my state's campaign finance filing/reporting system. It sounds like it would be a lot, but it's really not THAT big. It has to be reliable and usable, but we're not talking about a mountains of data.
<0> (***uming you use SHarepoint's master CSS... which is swappale for other templates)
<4> Have you done much with web accesibility?
<0> SirPsycho: it's not directed at mountains of database data... it's directed at mountains of *content*
<0> there's a big difference
<0> content is all sorts of stuff
<0> files (documents), scanned images, reports, blogs, etc
<0> it also hooks to Commerce Server, so you can also limit access to the content and "sell it"
<0> product catalogues, etc
<0> it's a huge framework
<4> Yeah, I doubt that's anything we need. I work for the State of Arizona. All our stuff is public records.
<0> Out of the box Sharepoint gives you basic CMS... but your programming staff can enhance it to make it "whizbang"
<0> i.e. you could build a web part that gets a live feed of accounting data... so on your intranet your company's people can see order stats, cash flow, performance indicators, etc
<4> The only thing that looks interesting about it to me is the wiki stuff.
<0> SirPsycho: yeah it's probably overkill
<4> Our development staff is very small though. Two people. :)
<0> oh then it is DEFINITELY overkill
<0> you can run Sharepoint with one guy... but you'd have to train every person that wants to change content in the system
<4> Well, at $10k per person, it wouldn't happen anyway.
<0> changing whats on the pages is rather easy... the pages render differently if you your NTLM account is registered as an owner of the site
<0> no it's $10,000 per seat
<0> (per server)
<4> Oh.
<0> it runs on a server
<0> and stores data in SQL 2005
<0> that's it... you don't need to put software on anyone's machine
<0> you *might* want to look at it
<0> Microsoft just released MOSS... so there should be a debut cl*** in Phoenix for free sometime soon
<0> I would check Microsoft's events site
<4> Yeah. I went to one a couple months ago. It was pretty good. Mostly VS 2005.
<0> If you've ever used Team Server for Visual Studio 2005 then you've seen Sharepoint
<4> I haven't yet, but I was considering it.
<0> Part of team server is the "team site" sharepoint template installed in a mini implementation of Sharepoint
<4> Of course, I don't know what the licensing costs are for that either.
<0> Team Server is also mondo expensive
<0> *sigh*
<0> s'why at home I just shuttle a USB drive back and forth
<0> There is so much Microsoft software I deal with it's not worth installing on my home machine anymore
<4> I basically just want to set up a project wiki. I don't care about much else other than that.
<4> Bug tracking would be nice, too.
<0> hmm
<4> I can always set up Mantis or the like instead if it comes down to it.
<0> VS2005 Team Server sets up a project site for you on the TFS server
<0> (Team Foundation is actually a "Server" you setup that has SQL, Sharepoint (lite), MS SQL Reporting Services)
<0> In that... TFS has bug tracking and the new SQL-based source code control
<0> it's WORLDS better than ****ing Sourcesafe
<4> Hmmm. We're already going to be buying SQL Server Enterprise
<0> how many developers?
<0> just the 2?
<4> Nope, just me, but there are a few business rules people too.
<0> hrm
<0> then I'd not bother with TFS
<0> it's for development teams larger than 4 ppl
<0> from 4 to "infinite"
<0> less than 4 and you really don't even need source control---you're all sitting next to each other
<1> lies!
<1> everybody needs source control
<4> Well, it's good to have backups, though.
<0> pfft since when
<4> I suppose that backup directories + diff engine would work, though.
<0> agreed
<1> since releasing quality software became impolrtant
<0> if you were developing OSS, well hell ya you need CVS
<1> good luck repeating a build and merging your changes togeather
<4> I could always do subversion.
<1> yes. subversion rocks
<0> subversion is good too
<0> but it doesnt have defect tracking
<4> How well does subversion work with VS?
<1> add mantis..
<0> but with it just being you... you can do that with spreadsheets
<4> No, but Mantis does.
<0> I wrote a rich defect tracking system that plugs into visual studio
<0> but only 2003
<0> I didn't redo it for 2005
<0> cuz then TFS came out
<0> A good defect tracking system plugs into the developer's IDE
<0> so you can flip to it immediately without leaving code
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