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<0> http://awol.no-ip.org/fvwm/ <-- for my snapshots
<1> blarg I forget this is a pos ubuntu box
<0> ubuntu has fvwm-crystal
<0> just do sudo apt-get install fvwm-crystal
<0> it's worth it
<0> trust me.
<1> I'll check it out
<1> I like alot of what kdes done but **** its taking like 3 days to figure out where all the feature hiding is
<0> lotsa nice transparency stuff
<1> and alot of their applets look like crap
<0> i never liked kde
<0> ya cant turn the **** that annoys you off
<1> I wish the environments would drop the backend configuration they're doing now
<1> linux and distros have gotten to the point where they can manage that **** themselves and now you have environ redundancy
<1> awol, actually you can but it takes you 3 days to figure out which menu you gotta be in
<0> fvwm-themes would work nicely as an environment by itself if it was a little more "finished"
<1> I have it on one machine almost to a point where I like it
<1> only to find out there are some key missing decent looking applets
<1> I don't get the whole concept of an environment
<0> it's an attempt to be more wincrap-like
<1> still
<1> why add in cut/copy/paste
<1> wtf
<0> and the whole concept is flawed
<1> highlight click works VERY well
<1> we'll take something functional and make it take 3 times as many steps
<1> every time I'm in osx or windows I keep having to go back and cut/copy/paste cause I forget about that
<2> I don't like the environment concept either. death to env!
<1> and it seems like it takes forever
<1> then you have other backend cruft
<1> dbus and network-manager
<1> and they lie to you in their docs
<0> yeah... that's the crap i dont like
<1> and the duplicate hotplug
<1> which lies too
<1> we honor fstab (not)
<1> network-manager breaks /etc/network/interfaces
<1> and or hooks you up to the first wifi access point it finds w/out asking you
<1> even the applets need backened daemons althought he infos in a path in sys
<1> wtf!
<0> i hate auto wifi managers..... i prefer to do it manually
<1> s/he/the
<1> hddtemp/cputemp/cputhrottling
<3> i hate *********ing with sandpaper
<1> all in a sys path or requires an echo of a string to change state
<1> and yet kde/gnome thing they need an application to do it
<1> s/thing/think
<1> rza, thats a good way of describing gnome and kde
<3> i use kde
<3> i like kde
<3> i like kioslaves
<0> well open source == open choice
<3> i like the wide variety of applications shipped with it
<3> i use Kate in almost all programming
<1> I'm ignorant in the way of kioslaves refresh my mem as to what they are again?
<0> some kde apps are ok....
<1> I forget the kde jargon at times
<0> some gnome apps are ok
<3> punani: kioslaves?
<4> rza: wish i knew
<0> but gnome/kde as environments == bloat imho
<3> KIO (KDE Input/output) is part of the KDE architecture. It provides access to files, web sites and other resources through a single consistent API. Applications, such as Konqueror which are written using this framework can operate on files stored on remote servers in exactly the same way as they operate on those stored locally. This allows for a file browser like Konqueror to both be a highly versatile and powerful file manager as well as a web browser.
<3> KIO slaves are programs that provide support for individual protocols (e.g. HTTP, FTP, SSH, FISH, SVN, TAR).
<1> ah gotcha
<1> sounds like twistedmatrix =P
<1> does it use a factory model?
<3> yes, i ***ume factory pattern is used
<1> kde4 sounds like it might be interesting
<3> but im not talking about KIO in programming wise
<1> ok brb gonna try to get into fvwm
<0> he didn't have to leave to do that
<0> ya can start fvwm from any running X session
<0> it's clever enough to replace the current window manager on the fly
<1> hrm
<0> iLLf8d: ya didn't have to logout of X to start fvwm ya know... ya can let fvwm take over a running X session on the fly
<1> yeah the ubu doesn't seem to have crystal
<1> and the default config is like nothing
<0> it can replace any running window manager gracefully
<1> ah yeah I forgot some of them could do that
<0> iLLf8d: ubuntu has fvwm-crystal... maybe ya dont have all the repo's enabled...
<1> I toggle between compiz and metacity with a command usually
<0> i think it's in the multiverse tree
<0> i have the fvwm-crystal.deb on my site tho if ya want/need
<1> hrm
<1> I'll check it out later on a deb box
<1> it'll probably be available on there
<0> i dunno if it's in debian.... lemme check...
<1> yeah the site needs a facelift bad and most of the screenshots should be tossed too
<1> theres like a half dozen more modern looking screenshots in the list
<0> not in sarge anyway
<1> and theres like 30 ofem there that look like motif
<5> not in testing either
<1> I'm running sid debian boxes so who knows
<0> heh i dont think it is
<5> http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?suite=all&subword=0&exact=1&arch=any§ion=all&case=insensitive&keywords=fvwm-crystal&searchon=names
<5> it is in unstable
<0> and i am somewhat of an fvwm expert
<0> avtobiff: yeah it might be
<5> it is
<0> figures
<5> :-D
<5> it dous
<1> awol, those screenshots scare me
<5> s/dous/does/
<5> awol, is it true transparency or fake?
<0> iLLf8d: fvwm can look like anything ya want... really it can
<1> most ofem look horrible they really should post some newer ones
<1> yeah I notice some of them are quite nice
<5> can you use compiz with fvwm=
<5> ?
<0> avtobiff: xfree86/xorg dont support true transparency... so there's yer answer
<1> awol, I do believe you =)
<5> uhm. xorg does not without some composite manager you mean?
<5> with eggs
<1> I was goofing with e17 a bit
<1> also noticed that the kde 3.5.x transparencies were breaking a few apps
<1> gimp and uhm I forget the other one
<1> seems the ruler bars were hosed and in the other app it was the scrollbar
<1> actually it ****ed it up in firefox iirc
<1> or was it evnice hrm
<1> evince even
<0> i need caffeine
<1> I need to go to bed
<1> awol, thanks for the info
<1> gnight all
<0> nite iLLf8d
<6> best thing i learned this year in linux: using udev to create /dev/ipod
<7> udev is pretty nifty
<7> I would've done the same for my mobile, but ubuntu's systems got in the way and I couldn't be arsed to byp*** them
<6> yeah it takes me a long time to learn stuff in linux, but i finally got the ipod to mount in the same place every time. whoo hoo!
<8> hm
<8> rza: im considering quitting fear. i just got kicked again because of cheat
<3> haha
<3> the shipment didnt arrive yet btw
<3> odd
<9> stop cheating then! :p
<8> rza: i have had troubles with several packages, both shipping and recieving, its probably just sthe .se post thats really slow right now
<8> they didnt hire enough hands over x-mas it seems
<8> phyber: id have to cripple myself to become bad then, i have played fpss for 10 years+ this year
<8> actually i started with wolfenstein in -95 or so i think
<8> hm
<8> i have an ap here
<8> sjouldnt that give me wifi capabilities?
<10> whenever I try to connect to a mirror to get a package with apt it tries to go to ip 1.0.0.0, how do I tell apt to connect to a dns server?
<10> EX:[Connecting to security.debian.org (1.0.0.0)]
<8> Rtllf: wahts /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf say
<10> search
<10> nameserver 192.168.2.1
<10> that's what resolv.conf says, 192.168.2.1 is my modem\router
<8> mm
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