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Comments:
<0> mish, usually, you need to bind two. but it depends on your exact config.
<1> AaronWL : yeah, but you also have to understand that most people write programs for a business, not because they want to conform to the new standard and if its cheaper to write in the older style (which it probably is) they'll stick to using it
<2> AaronWL: thus i don't see how family-agnostic helps with server code
<2> it's still going to be family-specific
<0> farhan, good businesses are not short-sighted. they have competent programmers that read the correct documentation, and write cost that lasts a long time.
<2> just explicitly support ip4 and ip6
<3> wait. it's big enough to hold it. just barely.
<0> mish, basically, you ask the system for all of the protocols it supports that meet your specifications (eg, reliables streams), and bind to all of them.
<2> i'm not sure this is practical
<0> win32 is the best in this regard, and has been in a long time. the various unixes are still catching up as far as supporting the standardized interfaces properly without needing misc. BS ioctl's or whatever
<2> if system supports x25 but i don't want to bind it ?
<2> i'm not sure this is practical
<3> AaronWL, ioctls are not BS. they are a good thing.
<3> ioctls FTW
<0> as a practical matter, most applications do have ipv6-specific code to make sure they bind to a specific port when they need to.
<0> however, you need to make up your mind.. do you want your app to be protocol-agnostic, or not?
<1> AaronWL : i dunno about that...
<0> there are practical complications, due to the fact we're in a 'transitionary period'
<2> What's FTW ?
<3> generally if you are doing a server and can have fancy config files then being protocol agnostic is pretty easy. just have directives in your config file like: bind <proto> <address> <port>
<3> and the proto could be ipv4, ipv6, or whatever is in your /etc/protocols file.
<3> Mysl[mish, for the win
<0> a lot of systems can get to ipv4 through an ipv6 interface.
<0> lately, ive become more and more in favor of avoiding configuration files as much as possible.
<2> isn't tthat too revolutionary
<0> ive seen a few examples, in domains im working on, in equivilent tools.. one with a huge annoying config file, and one without a config file.. i prefer the latter.
<3> if you're writing some simple client program and you don't want to make a user's life complicated then it's best to just use ipv4 everywhere and have soem checkbox to enable ipv6 or have ipv4 fail and fallback to ipv6 or something. and not worry about if someone wants to run x.25 or whatever
<1> Anycast addresses are like broadcasts, right? to all addresses on the network, and only the DNS server or DHCP server is supposed to respond, correct?
<0> anycast is like multicast, except the message is only delivered to one person in the group.
<0> broadcast is a special cast of multicast... multicast to one's own local network.
<3> AaronWL, does windows support SCTP rfc2960 yet?
<0> OrngeTide, not as far as i know.
<3> too bad
<1> AaronWL : how is that possible? if you're the DNS server, you are ***igned the Anycast address?
<0> however, i am hearing that there are already replacements to SCTP that are supposedly better.
<3> it would be useful for a lot of desktop applications. from games to multimedia apps
<0> farhan, it is a high-level routing trick.
<3> AaronWL, really? replacements to sctp? wow
<0> theres tons of proposed stream protocols right now... i was looking at a site that listed them the other day.. cant remember where that was thoughb
<1> so, any anycast address is an actual ipv6 address ***igned to a certain machine which happens to be the DNS or DHCP or whatever
<1> ??
<4> anybody got an idea about discrete math ?
<0> farhan, anycast is not related to dns or dhcp.
<3> AaronWL, oh. i didn't realize there were so many proposals.
<0> anycast is a layer3 routing thing.
<3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anycast - "Anycast is a network addressing and routing scheme whereby data is routed to the "nearest" or "best" destination as viewed by the routing topology."
<0> with regards to what i mentioned, 192.88.99.0/24 is an anycast block... 'anyone' (sortof) can claim to be a member of this group, and receive packets directed to it.
<0> as for how its actually accomplished, generally by advertising a route for it through bgp or similar.
<0> this is obviously entirely out of the domain of ordinary ip applications.
<3> you can use anycast for virtual servers and load balancing. among other things.
<0> yeah, im all for using an anycast-like mechanism rather than dns RR etc
<0> dns RR is a pretty bad load balancer imo.
<3> yea. the root servers use it. (according to the wikipedia page)
<0> farhan, do you have an ipv6 interface on your box?
<0> other than loopback, of course :)
<3> i worked for a company and we used some dns RR ordering that is different depending on the POP you were in. (response depends on your source address of the request for the dns entries)
<1> AaronWL : can i msg you my ifconfig output?
<0> farhan, yes\
<3> then we could redirect people to mirrored websites based on their location in the network.
<1> AaronWL : not the inet6 stuff
<0> OrageTide thats an interesting implementation.. but is this really superior to ordinary RSVP etc routing metrics?
<3> high bandwidth distributed websites all use this dns hack. like inktomi and others.
<3> AaronWL, it's superior because it actually works in all networks.
<3> anycast doesn't always work in a network that you are in.
<0> farhan, ok, so if eth0 is the only interface you have, then no, you dont have an ipv6 interface.
<3> although support for anycast is more universal than it once was.
<0> you see it has a link-local ipv6 addr, but thats not going to be useful for anything.
<3> and you don't need anycast addresses to do this dns rr hack.
<0> (unless you have physical peers that support ipv6)
<5> Hey aaron.
<1> AaronWL : i've got another....wlan0
<0> OrngeTide, hehe, it seems to me like anycast is superior here, but i can see this being a temporary workaround..
<3> AaronWL, i don't know for certain, but google probably uses this same technique. it's extremely popular because it's very simple to implement and is well supported on the internet.
<0> farhan, ok, you need to set up a special ipv6 interface... do you have a recent linux kernel?
<1> yes
<1> 2.6.15
<3> well it's hard to get an ipv4 anycast address.
<0> farhan, and you have /sbin/ip installed?
<1> AaronWL : bear in mind that you're talking to a complete ipv6 newbie. on my other terminal, im reading a document on this stuff
<1> yes, i do
<3> and it's hard to convince your provider to honor your BGPs for your anycast
<0> OrngeTide, its not a matter of getting.. you just need to advertise routes to the block in the DFZ
<6> My new phone is nice.
<0> yeah, getting the bgp peering is the real trouble.
<0> farhan, sec,
<0> farhan, well, are you using NAT?
<0> i see the 10.0.0 thing
<3> AaronWL, yea. it limits the selection of colos you can use. where as dns rr you just have a two to four dns servers pushing up the source-calculated ordering and you can have literally hundreds (sometimes thousands) of locations for your webservers
<1> AaronWL : no, that's a temporary thing. i usually don't have that interface up.
<6> Hm.
<6> Bluetoothing at 40k/s
<0> farhan, so, this box has a real ip on the net?
<1> AaronWL : i usually use a 192.168.1.x address as
<1> err, no, sorry. i do NAT to get online
<0> ok
<1> no real internet address
<0> well, the trouble is getting ipv6 through your NAT... hmm...
<5> aedinius: I thought bluetooth was better than that.
<3> usually you just install 1-2 servers as close to every comcast network you can get and that can dramatically reduce your network costs. (since pushing data through the same network is nearly free)
<0> i really have no idea if 6to4 goes through most NATs or not
<0> its worth a try, anyway
<1> brb, im going to get in X
<6> Oh, it's on
<6> Oh duz
<1> back
<3> having ipv6 on your lan and plugging into an ipv4-only provider is kind of boring. the NAT works just fine. but you don't really get anything out of it. the translations are just transparent.
<7> aedinius: limbo's in topic.
<6> I don't have my phone =]
<7> aedinius: we got the LIMBO!
<3> and you don't get a nifty ipv6 external address out of the deal.
<6> SgtUnix: I got the W600i =D
<0> farhan, what is your real ip?
<3> SgtUnix, did you like the greek bike accident?
<6> My ringer is "Molly" by Mindless Self Indulgence
<0> farhan, is it the one i see on irc?
<6> OrngeTide: No, he was in it
<1> AaronWL : to be honest, im just looking to telnet and ping computers within my network. say, off a 192.168 or 10.0.0 address
<3> aedinius, he must be invincible then.
<6> OrngeTide: He had driven down for the day
<1> yes, 68.100.115.182
<6> That he is
<3> the bike was in more pieces than i could count..
<6> Speaking of Greek accidents, Dmi hasn't been around
<8> greek tragedies?
<3> aedinius, yea. i wanted dmi to see that and translate some of the greek cursing.
<6> ah
<3> ack, greek tragedy == driving in greece.
<8> sounds like an accident waiting to happen
<3> ack, watch the video in the topic.
<6> OH YES
<1> AaronWL : could you please explain these commands to me? :-)
<6> My new phone supports location
<6> IN the calendar
<6> Nice
<0> tunnel add tun6to4 creates a 6to4 tunnel device
<3> my buddy makes the chips for cell phone gps.
<1> AaronWL : this is more of a reason why i need to get netbsd working on my wireless router
<0> link set dev tun6to4 up is like 'ifconfig' up
<3> AaronWL, can you connect two ipv6 networks together with it?
<0> 'addr add 2002:4464:73B6::dead:1337 dev tun6to4' adds your ip addr
<0> 'route add 2000::/3 via ::192.88.99.1' adds your default route to the anycast addr
<0> substitute this last line with some other 6to4 tunnel broker if you like.. this is what many people with special arrangements do. for eg, winxp users use microsoft's addr
<0> OrngeTide, yes, thats what it does.
<0> 6to4 is just a tunneling over ipv4.. sort if like IPIP for ipv4
<3> AaronWL, but it's a tunnel. only point to point.
<0> gateway to gateway, if you like
<7> OrngeTide: hm, wild
<3> oh. i see. so if i could find someone to be my gateway they could route my ipv6 ips?
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