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Comments:
<0> The current version is very buggy.
<1> alledgedly, the US is the second
<2> yeah, i believe in a LITTLE restriction, but just about laissez faire
<0> And you spelled laissez-faire correctly.
<1> Woo hoo
<1> thats pretty much a first for me
<2> a communist/socialist would see someone who commits a crime so that he can go to prison and get SOME kind of healthcare as a justification for government-sponsored nationalised healthcare. A free-market guy would say we should remove government restrictions which eliminate jobs so that instead of just redistribution, we can create jobs and have that guy have a shot at legitimate work
<3> dude, what are you talking about?
<1> Pretty much every socialist system has free healthcare anyway
<1> and it works out pretty well
<2> false
<1> of course you get freeloaders, but it cant be worse then, say the chavs in britain
<3> chavs?
<1> townies I think is another name for them
<1> Basically, they live off government subsidies
<1> And attack people in large gangs for no reason at all
<2> Humanoid : Socialism is evil. End of discussion.
<1> Um
<1> Wow
<1> Once again, each system implements their own unique advantages and disadvantages. I see no fault with either.
<4> You had clothes.
<2> Humanoid : lets say you worked and earned $100,000 a year. If you got taxed 50% of that, would you work as hard?
<4> And a computer.
<4> And dignity.
<5> farhan: Sure.
<1> farhan: yes, because I recieve benifits such as free health care, welfare and college
<3> farhan: that's an awesome argument.
<2> Humanoid : yeah, but you woulda received that anyways....better
<1> Uh
<1> College is expensive last time I checked
<5> My tuition is $3600 this fall
<6> Socialism is "evil"? Sounds like a very Cold War mentality to me.
<1> it seems to always work out to be about the same either way in my eyes
<5> tuition+fess
<5> fees*
<7> capitalism sux
<5> That doesn't include books.
<1> My tuition will probably 14k a year
<2> Humanoid : if you earned $100,000 a year, you coulda spent that money on a quality educational system. one which is competative with other universities to produce the best quality of education for the chaepest
<8> C++ is no longer topical in this channel?
<5> jason4: No.
<3> farhan: say you aren't taxed 50% of that. then you don't have roads and ****, so you won't work as hard since you spend so much of your time dealing with basic **** that should be done by the government.
<5> jason4: It has been superceded by D.
<4> jason4: Do you have a pressing C++ question?
<2> evilgeek : nah, roads can exist privately
<5> jason4: If you do go to #c++
<8> not really, was just curious
<4> jason4: Then get back to programming!
<2> evilgeek : have you even been to DC? they have private roads
<3> farhan: yes, but they may not be public.
<7> Capitalism is inherently exploitative because capitalists extract surplus labour-value from workers
<3> no, i haven't been to DC.
<1> I'm pretty sure that the US has a ****ty school system (as I am a victim of it)
<8> yes sir
<2> evilgeek : sure, you pay a small fee at a toll and drive. problem solved
<3> what's your point?
<2> evilgeek : less traffic
<3> the toll fee need not be small, though.
<2> evilgeek : and peopel don't drive when they don't have to because it costs money, so less polution
<2> evilgeek : it is when two roads are competing with each other
<7> farhan: and i suppose a private capitalist gets to own and control the roads for his own profit?
<5> That's get annoying pretty quickly where I live
<3> you are mistakenly applying the first welfare theorem.
<3> look at the coquihalla highway in BC.
<5> (toll roads in town)
<2> niv_ : yes, much the same way you get to control your own computer
<2> niv_ : or your own house
<3> or the 407 in ontario.
<3> both have exorbitant tolls.
<7> farhan: but roads go over everybody's property and span nations.. they should be collectively owned
<5> i like exorbiant
<5> fun word
<4> Roads in M***achusetts are not bad in general.
<7> farhan: because you can't just build a new road without securing the routes, etc., first, so theres no competition if it's privately owned
<2> niv_ : no, the owner of the roads could just pay money to those properties it goes over
<4> Except for Worcester. Roads in the city of Worcester are beyond the pale awful.
<6> Alex__: 'Cept in Boston, heh.
<2> niv_ : if your road goes over my farm, pay me money and we're both happy. problem solved
<4> Even Boston is better than Worcester.
<3> farhan: so what if the dude who owns the road between your home and your workplace (at which you make $100000/year) decides that he doesn't like you, and thus he decides to stop you from using his road?
<2> evilgeek : another rival road company will spring up and charge $1 less than him and then get your business. They will continue this price war until the price is $50/year
<3> farhan: you also ***ume that value can always be quantised in money.
<3> farhan: they will?
<2> evilgeek : no im not
<3> farhan: what if the land isn't flat?
<2> huh?
<3> farhan: there may not be space for another road.
<6> farhan: Eventually you're going to run out of places to put roads. And quickly.
<7> exactly
<3> farhan: even if there is, you're screwed out of your job in the meantime.
<2> how is that different from public roads?
<6> Public roads don't have a toll.
<3> farhan: the owners of public roads cannot prevent people from using them.
<2> evilgeek : no, because usually companies anticipate this price-war, so they keep their roads cheap to begin with
<7> farhan: because with public roads you don't have a private individual profitting off of them, and monopolizing them because there is a finite amount of land for roads
<3> farhan: ie/ you can depend on the public roads between your home and your workplace to work.
<3> farhan: but what if the company just doesn't like you?
<3> farhan: what price-war, anyway?
<2> niv_ : you can always pay someone to move if you want another road
<3> farhan: a mountain is a physical barrier to such a price war.
<2> evilgeek : that is a cost to them too, because they don't get your business
<7> Capitalism is a race to the bottom, farhan
<2> evilgeek : so, they lose too
<3> farhan: no, not necessarily.
<7> Goods and services aren't produced because they are needed, they are produced because they are profitable
<2> evilgeek : if I run a pizza business and i don't sell pizzas to black people, i lose money from all blacks. Therefore, I lose too
<2> which is why racism doesn't last very long
<3> farhan: so? you get the white racist customers.
<7> that's why this damn (in)efficientNetworks router uses bit banging instead of having a proper HDLC framer.. because it was probably cheaper to be produced that way for the company, even though it ****s
<3> farhan: thus, you do not necessarily lose.
<2> evilgeek : and the non-racist pizza shop earns more money, and therefore can lower prices, driving the racist one out of business :-)
<3> farhan: anyway, what price-war were you talking about? if a company has a monopoly on the road from your home to your workplace that is enforced by big mountains on each side, i do not see there being a price war.
<7> I prefer the socialist model of producing goods and services because they are needed by people, not simply to make a profit
<3> farhan: do they? what if the white racists, as a group, have more money?
<2> evilgeek : trust me, it'll work its way out. if not, the company will have to relocate, cuz employees will factor in transportation costs and demand higher pay
<4> Then I kill them.
<3> farhan: anyway, your analogy is not only irrelevant but it is incorrect.
<2> evilgeek : which will maek them go out of business
<2> evilgeek : i disagree. i think it makes complete sense, but you don't see how
<3> farhan: yeah, so how is this good for you, the employee?
<2> evilgeek : okay, may i have a moment to type up stuff? this'll take a little while...
<3> farhan: it is irrelevant, since, in the road example, there can be only one road.
<6> Well, a very small number of roads.
<6> (you can have two or three competing road systems)
<3> farhan: you should really study game theory.
<2> evilgeek : i did, and i got an A+ :-)
<7> game theory is cool
<3> farhan: perhaps you should study it again.
<2> i actually tutored people in that cl***
<3> farhan: it is abundantly clear to those of us in the channel that you have no idea what you're talking about.
<2> i also studied economics
<3> farhan: you should study that again, too.
<2> this kind of analysis is all we did. trust me, i know what im talking about
<3> farhan: this isn't analysis. this is handwaving.
<2> evilgeek : which part?
<2> don't just say "all of it"
<2> give me a specific example please
<7> farhan: you've already decided in your head that laissez-faire capitalism is the solution to everything because "the market will work itself out".. and you are fitting are your "analysis" to that idea, which doesn't work
<3> farhan: "and the non-racist pizza shop earns more money, ..." is totally incorrect.
<8> int i = 0; sscanf("foo", "%d", &i); is i guaranteed to be 0?
<9> jason4: yes.
<8> thanks
<9> jason4: sscanf's return value shouldn't be ignored.
<2> evilgeek : if there is a company behind a mountain and only 1 road company has access to it for physical reasons (mountains, etc) then wokers will factor in transportation costs into their salaries and either A) demand higher wages to offset the costs of transportation or B) quit. If they quit in large amounts, the road company will get no business and go OUT of business. As you surely know, companies like money and won't let that happen
<3> farhan: suppose white racists want to spend $A on pizza, and black people want to spend $B. then the racist shop makes $A, and the non-racist shop makes $B. if A>B, then the racist shop is doing better than the non-racist shop.
<8> yeah I know I just wondered if it alters i in this case
<8> if it's allowed to alter it even
<3> farhan: again, that is bull**** and handwaving. people travel for reasons other than getting to and from work.
<9> 'f' is not a valid decimal digit, so it cannot.
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