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Comments:
<0> I used to tinker with that
<1> Gambit-, well it's faster to pull a batch of records than it is to pull several records one at a time.
<0> and played the ROM.org server
<2> The advantage of the global id though is that an object can fall into multiple catgories, which I think is really powerful.
<0> isn't that what keys are for?
<1> Gambit-, but i wouldn't break it down into like long_sword_table. more just an item_table or possibly a weapon_table
<2> OrngeTide, Yeah, absolutely... having the guid-to-table looking is expensive.
<1> personally i prefer just to have objects and then every object in the system is the same at the lowest level so i only have to write my serialization routines once.
<0> any of you seen discworld's system? it's insane
<2> zid_, what's discworld?
<1> Gambit-, well you could just read the whole guid-to-table into RAM has a hash table or something and never ask sql about it again
<0> the biggest MUD ever
<1> Gambit-, you never read discworld books?!
<0> several million rooms
<1> yea. discworld mud is m***ive
<1> galaxyweb was a huge mud too, but it's gone now.
<0> the parser is insane
<0> objects and rooms can export commands
<2> Absolutely I've read the books, I just didn't know there was a mud or something for it.
<2> ****, pri int, justasec.
<3> WeirdMish: know of any interpreted languages that may work like PHP where you can go in and out of code?
<1> discworld runs on some m***ive server and it's usually on it's knees gasping for air:)
<4> Aren't MUDs lightweight enough in comparison to today's hardware that you can typically read the entire world into RAM anyway?
<0> OrngeTide: yep
<5> feti_: perl
<1> Teckla, ahha. no way
<3> weird: since when can perl do that like PHP? :P
<0> Teckla: the machine running discworld uses several GB of ram just for keeping it ticking over
<1> Teckla, it's not hard to write a mud that uses 500+mb of RAM
<1> Teckla, but mostly it's cpu usage that is the problem.
<3> like <?code ?>text<?code ?>
<1> Teckla, since muds are almost never designed to scale multiprocessor.
<4> Ah, well, I consider 500 MB pretty lightweight.
<5> feti_: www.masonhq.com/
<1> you would, you java freak:P
<0> Gambit-: If you need anyone to help, I will.
<2> several million rooms? That's frickin' huge.
<0> Gambit-: I'll get you a map of the world
<4> There are MUDs these days with millions of rooms?! I had no idea.
<5> are those million rooms randomly generated, or what ?
<0> no
<2> zid_, that'd be a cool url.
<5> I mean, who had time to *design* million rooms ?
<2> that's a ****load of content
<0> they aren't
<1> if you want a big mud you just grant a whole bunch of people build access to their own zone. you can end up with 10 people each custom making a dozen rooms a day. you can add 50,000 rooms a year to a mud pretty easily.
<0> it's drawn than anything
<0> most of the rooms outside down are fairly generic
<0> but god damn is it big
<4> OrngeTide: 50k/year would require 20 years for 1 million rooms.
<2> OrngeTide, so long_sword_table might be too specific, the design is trying to support whatever categories need to be created
<1> some muds are hard to build rooms for. especially the role-playing intensive ones. a mud like discworld you have a lot of flexibilty as a designer. it's not hard to invent something that fits in with discworld theme.
<0> http://boot.darkmud.co.uk/mysur.gif <-- just the bit around the circle sea
<0> each square = 256 rooms
<5> use cheap chinese labor to generate 1 mil rooms!
<1> Teckla, yea. there are several muds that have been up since the mid-80s
<1> Teckla, but for a super huge mud you just have more than 10 people building.
<4> Amazing.
<1> Gambit-, i like going the other way. only having one category that can do everything. but i'm a big fan of ObjC/smalltalk model:)
<0> lemme get a map of AM
<6> calc smalltalk
<7> Smalltalk: The language God meant people to use!
<0> http://maps.gothmudders.com/ankh-mor.gif
<0> city map
<2> OrngeTide, Yeah, I see the merits of what you're saying for sure.
<0> Gambit-: did you see the terrain map ?
<4> Reading the scrollback, I agree with OT that making object attributes dynamic is a good idea.
<0> few thousand proper rooms in AM alone
<2> zid_, yeah, that's pretty wacky
<0> BP is another good map (on the counter weight continent)
<0> http://maps.gothmudders.com/bsplrgc.gif
<1> zid_, i love the map. i wonder what they used to make it.
<4> I'm impressed some MUDs are so...big.
<5> looks just like map of London underground
<0> airk made the city maps, boot made the terrain map, whom i'm friends with
<4> I would need to divorce my wife and quit my job to play a MUD this m***ive.
<2> Teckla, well I'm thinking of it more in the other direction, but it's all gut impulse at the moment.
<8> MUDs are so amazingly static though... Nothing you do has any effect on the universe
<2> zid_, by hand?
<1> Teckla, i prefer muds with under 1000 rooms
<0> sined is up to over 1 year play time @ Teckla
<2> Maloeran, s'true, you can't really burn down the house :)
<5> Maloeran: I thought it was Stryst who was dreaming of nuking the Universe, not you ?
<0> Maloeran must play the sims all day..
<1> many muds allow you to build things. from just building your house to actually altering the world due to explosions, work that users paid for, etc.
<4> Gambit-: A static design would probably offer performance benefits.
<0> Gambit-: I lurrrve the way your skills work in discworld
<1> a dynamic mud is very easy to implement. and just as fast as a static one.
<8> WeirdMish, I prefer playing a game where your actions can have some importance
<4> Although I was also under the impression MUDs didn't use much CPU (I'm probably wrong about that too).
<2> Teckla, Well part of it is that I'm trying to keep one engine possibly supporting a vast array of archetypes, so I'm not going to hardcode in anything.
<1> the purpose of a static one is people get upset if you start pulling the rug out from underneath them
<8> Not an universe where no matter what you do, nothing changes
<1> it's hard enough to navigate a mud without it changing every day
<0> Maloeran: try learning to walk around AM inside a single week
<2> zid_, how's that?
<8> You are missing the point, zid_
<0> Gambit-: You have your normal stats. strength dex etc
<1> RPI muds change socio-political landscapes on an hour-to-hour basis from the actions of small groups.
<0> then you have your skills like stealing etc
<5> Maloeran: i need to play the revolutionary MUD where your goal is to overthrow existing order
<5> s/i/you/
<0> and you can level each skill independantly using your exp
<0> but 300 levels of stealing with a crap dexterity stat will acctualy make you pretty poor at it
<1> WeirdMish, that would be fun. like a capture-the-flag mud. but instead of a flag you capture wiz access.
<0> you have to balance it out
<4> RPI?
<8> Seriously, what's the point of playing a game if there's nothing you can do that makes any difference?
<0> stats * level = bonus pretty much
<1> Teckla, role playing intensive.
<8> Besides "leveling up". How thrilling!
<1> it's like a table top RPG where people actually act in character, all the time. sort of the crowd that goes to an AD&D party and actually dress up.
<9> heh
<9> I don't get that.
<8> I would love a RPG in an entirely simulated dynamic world... AD&D-style, as played with sheets and dices
<9> The kids who go to play "Dungeons and Dragons" all dressed up, etc...
<9> Maloeran, what's wrong with WoW?
<8> I never played, sbahra. Is the world really dynamic?
<9> Yes.
<0> I'm fine playing Kingdom of Loathing, next best thing to a good MUD or game of nethack :P
<4> sbahra: Yet it's considered completely normal to go out every Saturday night and get drunk and be stupid. Go figure.
<9> I haven't played it intesively either, I would like to.
<8> Can populations grow, spread, large wars occur, cities are razed, and so on?
<1> Maloeran, i like neverwinter nights because it actually follows strict AD&D rules and displays your rolls. kind of fun. but it's not dynamic.
<9> I probably will starting next semester.
<0> neverwinter nights looked hella slow and boring when my friend was plaing it
<9> Maloeran, yes.
<1> an RPG/MUD with a physics model and dynamically alterable terrain would be nice. and to focus on world-building (like you could hire a carpenter and build a house whereever)
<9> Teckla, haha
<8> I'm still playing sheets & dices role playing games more than any computer game
<1> and if you built your house on some lords land he might come and burn it donw, etc.
<1> Maloeran, really? wow.
<0> Maloeran: go onn, play nethack instead
<1> i haven't play tabletop games in many many years. none of my friends have the time.
<5> Maloeran: being a person who doesn't have computer, what else you can do ?
<1> nethack is awesome you can dynamically modify that world.
<4> A world that's too dynamic would be annoying for many players.
<0> yea Teckla
<2> It's because your focus is too narrow in a mud
<1> Teckla, yea. that's why most worlds are too static for Maloeran. he wants an annoying world.
<0> everquest 2 lets you do a sims on your house I think, that's pretty cool
<2> you can't quickly scan around and visually process the region around you, you have to read each description.
<1> Maloeran, have you ever tried Second Life? you can build anything and do anything on that one
<1> it's like a graphical MOO
<0> my friend was making money off second life >_<
<4> Gambit-: Is your MUD going to be text based?
<1> so is my friend (they sell dogs)
<0> apparently it's full of rich bastards, and they'll pay for you to model things
<2> Teckla, Yeah, though I plan on doing some ncurses stuff to it, even though OrngeTide's warned me about it :)
<1> ncurses is utter pain. plus it doesn't work on windows.
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