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Comments:
<0> in the hands of the people*
<1> nope
<2> breb
<1> none of the above
<2> brb
<0> If you wish to survive in a capitalistic system, you must either be exploited or exploit other
<1> false
<1> there's mutual gain
<0> The gain is disproportionate
<1> doesn't matter
<1> Maloeran : so, you admit there is mutual gain?
<1> just disproportinate?
<0> Who gains more, the investors or the workers? The first cl*** gains everything and is completely useless
<1> i agree, the investor
<1> but, you agree that the gain is mutual, just skewed to one side?
<2> The workers only gain enough to keep them coming back to work
<0> Obviously the worker gets something in return, generally
<1> Maloeran : well then......okay :-)
<3> Brick wall etc
<1> Maloeran : so, its mutual. no problems :-) do you wish to take away the gain to the worker?
<2> Let's say a worker produces 10 $100 shirts that a capitalist sells for $1000, and the capitalist pays the worker $50
<4> Baby I'm craaazayyyy, baby I'm craaayzaaay
<2> There we see that the worker has just been exploited for $950
<4> Just like youuuu
<0> I wish to take away the investors entirely and make the company be owned by the workers
<4> niv_, thus is outsourcing.
<5> i like exploitation.
<4> Maloeran, me too, I was going to go through with a structure like that a while ago for a start-up.
<4> Maloeran, I think I probably will. The model doesn't scale, but it could scale if you have different managing groups (all of whose management takes an active part in development).
<0> Quite nice, sbahra
<2> Now, just because the capitalist happens to won the equipment for making the shirts does that make it right for him to continually profit significantly (actually exploit) the work of others?
<4> Maloeran, you also have the issue of spread (with that model, you cannot always *promise* security).
<2> s/won/own/
<4> OrngeTid1, exploitation of what?
<4> OrngeTid1, people? :-)
<2> farhan: I'm about done, since we've been talking for like 2hours, but why don't you read that site and I'll talk to you later
<6> hey hey :)
<3> Dmi: Welcome to #politics
<7> The workers actually do need the management, there needs to be organisation and some form of control to make the work be completely random and without purpose. But you could consider the amount of reward there is for various jobs
<6> uh
<6> no
<7> ;)
<6> #C is for Communism
<6> and Cookies
<2> Kralian: Management != Owners
<0> Yes, it's definitely time to take a braeak... Besides, I think I would have more luck explaining Navier-Strokes equations to a cat
<2> Kralian: Managers are workers, but they should be elected from the workers underneath them
<6> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=173613&cid=14445094
<2> Kralian: The exploiters are not the managers, though. The exploiters are the owners and the capitalists.
<0> Investors and owners, definitely, which sometimes happen to be managers but not necessarily
<2> right
<7> ahh, right
<2> Obviously if they also manage the business then they do work, but the vast amount of their income comes from their position as owner, and it is actually the surplus-labour value that they extracted from their workers.
<6> where's hamstar?
<7> but without the investors there wouldn't even be the workplace for the workers
<6> :D
<6> :D :D :D
<8> running around some tubes.
<6> hey twkm :)
<6> youtube?
<2> kralian: That's because we live under a system where a few people already own everything.
<6> it's called capitalism :>
<8> ewww.
<2> kralian: That **** needs to be redistributed, and if not, simply taken back by the people.
<2> Dmi: yeah, we've been debating it for like 2 hours
<7> niv_: I get this vague feeling you're american and I'm not :-)
<6> who's debating what?
<6> and who's the troll
<6> speaking of trolls
<6> where's Dave?
<2> Dmi: well originally it was farhan, but he seems to have disappeared about 5 minutes ago
<6> heh
<2> hasn't said anything in the last 5 minutes
<2> heh, I'm gonna go grab a smoke
<6> holy ****
<6> mirc has proper UTF8-8 support, finally
<2> wonder if prym still comes around here
<6> why woudln't he
<6> man
<2> haven't seen him in quite a while
<9> I saw him not too long ago
<6> hey aedinius :)
<6> hey OT :)
<9> DMI OH MY GOD </JohnTravolta>
<9> Last week of 10AM clases
<9> YAY
<9> Then I move to 2PM-6PM for cl***es.
<9> So happy =D
<1> aedinius : which school again?
<9> www.utsa.edu
<1> i graduated college 3 weeks ago
<9> Nice.
<9> I have about a year left.
<6> heh
<1> awesome, good luck :-)
<9> Eh.
<9> Fun cl***es this summer though.
<6> yeah, well, aedi has been in college longer than i was :)
<1> yeah, definately
<6> what is this now? 8 years in college?
<1> the last paper i wrote in college was on drug legalization
<9> Uh, 4 so far ...
<6> no way
<10> were you for it or against it?
<9> I'm only 22 dude.
<11> hrm any of you play muds a lot?
<1> if i hadn't transferred, i coulda finished college in 3 years
<12> mm UTF8 rules
<11> aedinius, your 22 and you haven't graduated uni yet? Slacker.
<11> you even made farhan leave in disgust.
<9> Gambit-: Too many cl***es
<11> i bet you're trying to get a minor, too.
<9> CS Major IAS minor.
<9> Yep.
<11> yup, didn't anyone ever tell you that minors are a complete and utter waste of time?
<9> CS Major with a concentration in security, and a Security minor.
<9> Yeah, the same peopl ethat said school was a waste of time.
<11> nuh-uh
<10> you are a bit late. computer security companys are failing
<9> jeffloc: Who said anything about private sector?
<10> financially
<9> And anyway
<10> oh
<11> aedinius is going to the NSA :)
<11> he'll be #c's deep cover mole :P
<9> Gambit-: Maybe.
<9> Ahaha.
<9> One of my friends is aiming for NSA
<9> I dunno how far he'd make it though, history of drug use.
<10> did you tell him he'll have to sell his soul
<13> Bad Gambit!
<9> lol
<11> jeffloc, no way, you're confusing nsa with fbi. NSA just gets to play with the righteous toys.
<11> the satelite lasers and stuff are all CIA, though.
<11> damn crossbow project, I knew the NSA's bid was too high.
<9> Heh
<9> Real Genius?
<9> Oh
<9> Apparently it's a real project.
<10> you'll have a lot of competition
<11> ahah really? I was just thinking RG
<9> Oh wait
<9> No, that's a RG reference, too
<9> The Crossbow Project. There's no defense like a good offense.
<9> jeffloc: Well, depending on who I ask, no matter what I do I'm ****ed.
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