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Comments:
<0> the linux user base is filled with idiotic zealots who will defend "linux the operating system(sic)" to death even though they don't know **** about it
<1> see: Gentoo
<2> ok I am sorry i asked.
<3> poutine: i've never heard your profit argument before ...
<3> poutine: it certainly does have avenues of profit, but not really from selling software, just support services
<0> groogs, funny you should say that being in a support chatroom for PHP
<3> poutine: and at the same time, it's totally legal to sell a box (ie, a POS terminal) running linux, with proprietary software on it
<3> (by proprietary, i just mean non-GPL'd )
<3> why? because i'm not charging people for when i ocasionally provide help?
<4> experts-exchange isn't free, is it?
<3> i think they started charging for everything now
<0> groogs, I myself have profited from the existence of GPL, and other open source licensed software with my POS terminals, but if _my_ software was GPL, I doubt I could get much of a profit past getting to the mom and pops
<3> poutine: ok so.. whats your point? the GPL isn't appropriate for your software and the way you want to sell the software you wrote?
<5> I'm inclined to agree with poutine
<4> poutine: aren't you the main complainer in here about mysql dual-licensing themselves?
<0> un-irreg1rdless, probably
<3> thats prefectly fine. no one (besides maybe RMS) will think theres anything wrong with that
<0> groogs, the GPL is not appropriate for any small business's software
<6> yeah, poutine is right here
<6> you won't win
<3> uh .. i'm not arguing against poutine
<3> i agree
<0> it works for large corporations like IBM, because the right people will pay attention and contribute because they're a large company
<3> that said, i don't think theres anything wrong with linux being GPL
<3> i write and sell non-open source non-gpl software
<3> the GPL is only one of hundreds of OSS licences
<3> not to mention, you're always free to write your own licence that says .. whatever you want it to say
<0> groogs, the GPL is a joke, it's been broken by numerous companies for profit and nobody does **** about it, yet the law abiding people such as myself have to follow it because some idiot decided it'd be a great idea to GPL client libs for a freely usable server
<0> see www.xchat.org www.linksys.com www.broadcom.com etc
<0> www.d-link.com
<4> que?
<3> yeah i know, that DOES ****
<4> how do they break it?
<3> they ARE liable if anyone does sue them though
<6> has anyone sued xchat yet?
<4> and isn't xchat opensource?
<6> yes, but you have to either compile your own windows binary or pay for one
<6> they made windows binaries shareware
<0> un-irreg1rdless, yes, and it uses 3rd party GPL software, yet they sell the windows version without providing the actual source used to make the binary
<3> i've also ran into the GPL client library thing, it's a huge PITA, i agree..
<4> where the **** did my api go
<2> i ate it :D
<7> Can anybody here confirm fp***thru functionality as applies to embedded PHP?
<3> but ultimately, people are donating their time to work on it, and you (or I) am trying to benefit from their work, for my profit
<7> It *strips* it, right?
<3> it's their choice to GPL it, because it's their work
<0> plus it really shakes things up when a big company which uses GPL is changing the wording of it, like MySQL and their people saying that connecting to it over a network constitues "linking" as is covered under the GPL
<3> if they want to make it more available, theres the LGPL and many other licences that allow commercial inclusion
<0> or people who give away images to use, but use the GPL on images (umm how the **** do you distribute the source)
<0> the LGPL is great
<0> I love it
<3> if they are a contributor (and can't change the licence) then if they disagree, they shouldn't work it any more, and start an alternative
<0> authors deserve their credit, but that credit shouldn't be turning my software into a communal urinal
<3> yeah, mysql people are kinda ****ed
<3> i don't think that argument would stand up in court though.. but who wants to be the one to defend against it..
<0> I'm not sure if there's been precedent with the GPL yet
<3> poutine: again, you're free to develop your own
<3> no, not yet
<0> legal precedent
<6> i'm waiting for that stupid creative commons license to be challenged
<0> so either violations have not occurred, or it's unenforcable
<6> that every single emo person puts on their blog like it means anything
<3> i wouldn't be surprised to see some VC firm come up and start a firm that sues for GPL violations
<3> that would be neat
<6> "i slit my wrists today. it didn't work. this post is released under the creative common license version 3.0."
<0> the GPL is damn old, and it still hasn't gotten legal precedent...
<3> and as long as they win the first case, it should be a profitable business for a short time (until people stop violating it)
<0> isn't there more than one creative commons license?
<6> yeah, there's an army of them
<6> kinda like conforming to a spec, there's different levels of conformance
<3> poutine so either violations have not occurred, or it's unenforcable
<3> poutine: .. or the people who own the copyrights don't have money to spend on the legal costs of defending it
<3> btw, i believe the EFF does help out here
<3> weren't they the ones that got linksys to make source available?
<2> groogs: that's a bunch of ****.. EVERYONE can afford Pre Paid Legal
<2> and that **** works
<3> Jstr: ?
<0> prepaid legal lol
<2> ok poutine
<2> what now ?
<2> groogs: u basically said ppl cannot afford to go to court.
<2> I dunno what poutine has expd w/ pre paid legal.. but it "DOES" work.
<0> prepaid legal hardly ever offers anyone of decent standing in the legal community and it's sold by telemarketers and other scum worldwide
<6> just get your own bar exam
<6> the law is not that difficult
<2> poutine: that's because your from Ohio
<3> are you talking criminal or civil court?
<3> thats like .. court-appointed lawyers ?
<6> with a bar, you can you do both
<2> i had to go to both
<3> this pre-paid thing
<2> and used pre paid legal.. and well here i am today
<0> groogs, for anything really
<3> who pays for it?
<6> you
<0> Jstr, were you guilty?
<6> it's legal insurance
<2> poutine: your just ****in synical
<3> with .. what?
<2> poutine: i coulda been
<3> is it a flat rate or something?
<0> Jstr, yes or no, they can't try you for it again
<2> but I aint OJ either
<6> State of Michigan v. Jedidiah Smith
<6> glad that one is sealed
<3> say i go to some pre-paid legal place and say "hi, i want to sue dlink for violating my GPL'd software" .. how much are they gonna charge for that?
<2> poutine: it's done. now.
<2> groogs: you pay monthly...
<0> groogs, I think they'd laugh you out of court unless you contributed to it
<6> groogs: it's my understand from stuff i've heard through the grapevine, but you pay per month and they represent you to a limit
<3> poutine: yeah, say i was the main developer on it, and most of the code was mine
<6> from what i understand
<2> Ok I am going back to cooking... different states have different limitations
<0> I don't know, never used it, some may be for defense only
<2> set by the firm that chooses to represent them
<6> i still vote get your own bar
<3> so what happens when they reach their "limitation" ?
<6> you only live once, at least know the laws you're abiding by
<3> the case is dropped, and i've still spent a bunch of money?
<3> and they continue to violate the gpl?
<4> god
<4> sometimes i really ****ing hate OOP
<2> groogs: 1: did they get the case dropped ? did you appeal ?
<6> haha, google complete typed in
<4> it's been a ****ing hunt-and-peck match between me, netbeans, and the api
<6> "p*** the bar without going"
<6> when i typed p*** the b
<4> I STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHERE WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS!!!
<0> jedzilla, I think some states require schooling
<0> I think california is pretty much the only state where you can just go take the bar
<2> poutine: really ?
<6> hm, i thought it was the other way around, that california required schooling
<2> that's why one of the best schools is there ?
<2> YOU MUST go to school...
<2> there is no way around that...
<8> groogs: if they knowing violated your GPL license, you should be able to actively persue damage costs (quite a bit). so if you have a strong case to pitch to a lawyer, you could prolly get them on board for a % cut of the award
<8> keeps the upfront cost of possibly losing down
<6> get a good software lawyer though
<3> yeah that sounds more reasonable
<6> who's tried several cases of the type before
<0> no
<3> so why has no one done it? probably just a matter of time
<0> cali requires NO schooling
<6> if you end up with Ari Pewterschmidt, the tax law expert, defending you against licensing issues, you're gonna be ****ed
<6> just like you don't give power to a copyright lawyer if you're up for murder 1
<6> the EFF could probably point you in the right direction, but don't hire them, they're idiots
<8> groogs: why has no one done what? sued dlink?
<8> what did they do?
<0> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Bar_of_California
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