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Comments:
<0> but in the panic of the moment im sure the police find guns more effective
<1> i ***umed when the police came he was already by himself?
<1> like he's the only one alive in a couple of metres radius?
<0> no, there were injured people and running people all over the place
<0> as you can imagine in such a large school
<0> but they were able to identify him and he apparently talked to them for a few seconds
<0> im thinking they could have neutralized him without killing him
<0> but they're lazy right, why bother, lets just get rid of the problem
<2> zanith right
<2> well i think its a different matter when someones shooting at you
<2> not the best time for calm reasoned thought
<0> yes, but the police could have a unit for that sortof thing
<0> a non lethal take down unit of sorts
<2> they shoot ppl for having knives
<0> yeah, well its stupid
<3> they shoot ppl for suspicion of having knives
<3> I don't know what .ca doctrine says
<0> i think they do that to send a message to others not to try it, caus the court system is too long and cant be covered by the media
<2> i think its better to kill ppl who do **** like that
<0> i dont
<2> its infinitely more suffereing to have them in a prison cell for the rest of their life
<3> pft
<2> what pft
<0> life is better than death as far as we know
<3> not you
<3> I misunderstood your statment
<2> well look at clifford olson
<3> Zan, you're armchair quarterbacking and speaking from hindsight
<0> im just saying that I think we have the technology to shoot non lethal projectiles that will put someone out fast
<3> and if they don't?
<2> he prob would have shot himself if he hadn't been shot
<3> and two or three police were killed?
<2> those guys seem to not want to live
<0> grim: we have the means to do it
<3> nothing is certain
<0> and police dont have to be police if they dont want to do that job
<0> if the objective is not to kill them that is
<0> if they objective is to kill then sure guns is the best
<3> there was an argument on the radio this morning. govts reserve the right to kill
<3> that's how it went anyway
<0> yeah, and I dont think its right
<0> they should kill as a last resort
<3> the govt can kill with impunity, but individual citizens cannot make that decision
<0> not the first resort
<3> how much more dangerous would he have to be?
<3> for you to accept a solution ending his life and thus the threat?
<0> its not him whos the problem, its that the police don't try anything else
<0> his danger remains the same
<3> I think your solution will end up in many more dead law enforcement officials
<3> and fewer people willing to take the job
<0> thats because you think killing the person is a good option
<3> I don't think it's a good option
<0> then they should try at least one option first
<3> again, we weren't there and didn't know the threat
<0> but it remains that they don't implement the means to non-lethal takedown
<3> if you're responding to a call and all the info you are given is that the ***ailant has a semiautomatic rifle and he's firing on a school
<3> are you going to walk in with pepper spray?
<0> im suggesting chemical or electrical weapons
<3> gas mask
<0> no, tranquilizing darts
<3> probably still legal in .ca
<3> body armor
<0> they can take down an elephant in 1 second
<3> homemade, even
<0> im sure they could take him down the same way
<3> elephants don't wear body armor
<0> that's true
<0> and in this case you're probably right they should shoot
<0> since its in a school
<2> zanith you have to remember that your arguing with a gun nut :-)
<3> I don't know that it was the best solution
<0> but im saying generally, they should be equipped with those means
<0> in this case, shoot sure, if you're threatning thousands of children you're going down
<3> I'm just saying that given the situation, they had to make a decision with limited info and people getting shot or killed
<0> grim: im just saying that it should be an option for less serious cases
<3> ok
<3> I don't disagree
<3> this seems pretty serious to me
<3> there was a school shooting where I was going to college several years ago
<0> yes, i agree... but generally they should have a non-lethal weapon at their disposal
<0> that would make sense to me
<3> two kids pulled a fire alarm, ran out to the woods, and then opened fire on the people who came outside for the fire alarm
<3> this was in the US
<3> the cops didn't shoot the two kids
<0> that worked out well
<3> sure
<3> five students and one teacher were killed, fifteen were injured
<3> all of it happened before the police responded
<0> anyway, theres a big problem about what to do with people who do these things once they're arrested, but I'm saying that they should have a non-lethal weapon as an option
<3> again, I don't disagree
<3> don't most depts issue tasers now?
<3> and tear gas, for that matter
<3> or mace, pepper spray, etc
<3> all of which has limited range
<0> right
<0> which ****s
<3> don't know how far away this guy in montreal was
<0> special case: no hostages, many police respondants = non-lethal weapons
<0> but they don't have that option
<0> this case: 10 000 hostages, unkown agressors = guns
<0> thats fine I guess
<3> what if they went in with pointy sticks?
<3> or swords?
<3> clubs?
<0> not funny
<3> I'm serious
<3> is it just the guns you have a problem with or lethal force?
<0> lethal force
<0> when contained and outnumbered
<0> thats all
<0> the guy was my age
<3> a murderer at your age
<0> yeah, but not just a murderer, its pretty ****ing sick whne you go into a huge school
<0> thats just nuts
<3> tell me about it
<3> we've had enough of it here
<0> shoot up your coworkers or something
<0> not innocent children
<0> ****ing rediculous
<3> a school or workplace is a very volatile and chaotic environment that isn't set up to respond to those kind of events
<3> ppl will go crazy, run around screaming, p*** out, etc
<0> like I say, this is the only case I know of where it was a school of children in such large ammounts
<3> there was a shooting awhile back in .ca, some guy started killing women
<0> yeah, but that was a university
<3> 'death to feminists"
<0> they weren't underage
<3> that's silly
<3> what, at 16 I'm no longer innocent?
<0> well, in your 20s one would think you explore some more complexe issues
<2> ok watching movie
<3> ltr rubik
<0> and you're better equipped to deal with the eventuality of violence
<3> pft
<0> but children don't know what the hell's going on most of the time
<3> some ppl might be
<3> not all
<0> I've been attending some intro cl***es at the university here and I can tell you that even 20 year olds don't know whats going on
<3> there are combat troops who crack under pressure, even though they've been trained to deal with it
<0> yeah but im talking about intellectual development
<3> adults, so I don't think the age matters
<3> I reject that argument
<0> you think there's no difference between a child and an adult in terms of intellectual development?
<3> a person can be intellectually developed and still not be able to digest having their best friend shot for no reason
<0> yes, but im saying it makes it a graver incident!
<0> that a person would attack children
<3> here, I'll give you an example from my own life recently
<0> in such large quantities
<0> im not only saying adults are better equipped to deal with it, im saying the agression is more severe when a person attacks children
<3> give me a second
<0> especially thousands of them
<3> http://www.kait8.com/Global/story.asp?S=5374423
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