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Comments:
<0> People buying dells at circuit city don't have a choice at all.
<1> She wanted her Linux system back
<2> They have a choice, they just don't know it.
<2> And some who do don't want to make it.
<1> Whoops, wife calls
<1> Gotta go
<1> see you all
<2> Later
<0> fdsa: I think the problem you're having is that you're confusing entrenchment with inherent ease of use.
<3> I haven't noticed new computer users finding windows easy. at all.
<2> I'm going off of my customer base and personal history with users and technicians.
<2> So if I have some factual errors, I blame humanity.
<0> Your customers have spent a _lont_ time with windows.
<0> long, that is.
<2> Personally
<0> The fact that you ahve a job is proof in the pudding that windows is _not_ easy to use.
<2> I hate using a gui in linux.
<0> So, don't.
<2> I don't
<2> I love the flexibility I get from bash alone
<0> Great. Then you have no need to be here. This is a linux channel.
<3> you think linux is more work to set up... but claim windows is easy. yet you also claim windows has to be firewalled, secured, etc before anyone should use it. is this easy? I bet 90% or more of the people in this channel couldn't properly secure a windows box. so they get viruses, spyware, their bank accounts emptied, etc. easy to use?
<0> any other trolls about?
<0> There's a fine line between debating, and trolling.
<3> nah. I think we can all help kb3ocf write his report now. :)
<4> heh
<0> Ok. Its free software.
<4> simpleguy helped me quite a bit
<0> Its an open model.
<0> Open model is a huge one, imho.
<4> yes, same
<0> Are you presenting to adults?
<3> brb, water boiling.
<4> nope, highschoolers
<0> Ok.... Then sell it this way.
<0> Bring in a nintendo, or a ps2 or something.
<4> I'm a sophomore in highscool and so are they, HOWEVER, the teacher is an adult
<0> And say "Nobody can make ps2 games unless Sony says its ok"
<5> hi all
<5> i need help
<0> ... there is a word for that kind of thing... "proprietary".
<6> doesn't a psp run linux?
<4> rocket625, yes, but shhh :P
<6> sorry
<4> Wait, after homebrew :P
<0> The difference between Windows and GNU/Linux is that Microsoft has many of the same rules that sony does. They make it hard to make stuff unless they get money too.
<3> or, to use your little-man-in-a-computer analogy... for linux, the little man does whatever you want, and can jump around to make everything happen. on windows, the little man is instead a puppet, with big corporations holding all the strings.
<0> Linux, on the other hand, is completely open. The information for making programs is where anybody, even you, can work on linux.
<0> Think you could sell it that way?
<4> Probably... in fact both ways.. hmmm
<0> Openness is really the keystone of your talk.
<4> It really is, and how its free as in free beer.
<0> Thats waht its all about. being open. Thats why you hear talk about "get rid of patents" and "reduce copyright" and "down with drm!!" and such whenever you start getting close to free software.
<3> although mentioning lower TCO, security (I bet half those kids get popups on their computers), etc won't hurt.
<0> I guess... But the money part isn't really the important part.
<3> the initial purchase cost is a rather small percentage of TCO.
<5> i h ave problem with raid-5
<0> Did you ever stop to think about why PS/2 games are $50 each?
<0> Its because sony only allows games to run on the ps/2 that they say are ok to run. They get to say how much games cost.
<0> They wouldn't be able to do that if just anyone could write ps/2 games.
<0> So, its not so much about "how much does it cost".. Its more about "Does it trap me?"
<3> well, there's more reasons than that too. capitalism makes sure companies price things at as high as they can get away with charging. :)
<0> Nah. Don't drag economics into it. Its a platform monopoly, so there's no economies of scale present.
<0> Unless you care to argue that the proprietary xbox vs. the proprietary ps/2 provides competition that makes economy of scale an actual benefit.
<0> (yes, I know that economy of scale only indirectly benefits the consumer)
<0> but when it comes to a lockin, the only one that really benefits from EOS is the supplier.
<0> Another issue involves privacy.
<3> I'm talking about competition among games for the same platform... a company releasing a new game will always price it at the peak of the price-volume curve. pricing it cheaper than other games will just hurt their profits.
<0> They can't compete for cost though, because its Sony that dictates price. :)
<0> They have to compete in other ways.
<3> heh. I don't know too much about game machines... never seen a reason to own one. :)
<0> Ok. well... what you need to know is that they are DRMed systems.
<0> They only run signed and encrypted games. And its the manufacturer that holds the keys.
<3> that much I know.
<3> (well, at least modern ones... the old NES was fun to hack)
<0> Ok. The rest of it, you can derive from that.
<3> bbl, food done. :)
<0> THe good ole days...
<0> kb3ocf: Still there?
<4> yes
<4> just.. trying to soak it all in :)
<0> Here's another issue-- one that affects people less than it does companies...
<0> How do I... well.. I know.
<0> Have you ever seen windows 3.1?
<4> yes :)
<0> Ever notice that its kind of hard to find them though?
<4> define:them, people who have seen windows 3.1, or windows 3.1 itself?
<0> Kind of hard to find systems running windows 3.1 systems today.
<4> Indeed. *hides old 333 MHz box*
<0> For every system running windows 3.1, you'll see a hundred, or a thousand, machines that are running XP, or 98, or w2k
<0> Would you agree?
<4> Yes, definitely
<0> Isn't that kind of strange?
<0> Its not like software rots like fruit. It shouldn't go bad after 6 months.
<4> I don't think so.. its keeping up to date.. but you have to buy the updates.. ahhh I see
<7> I don't use a GUI in Linux.
<7> That's what I don't do.
<0> Certainly, software can be fixed, and kept up to date.
<0> Yup. Exactly.
<7> I sure love zsh. Oh man.
<0> But you can't buy windows 3.1. You can't get support for windows 3.1. You can't even get updates to windows 3.1.
<0> That's because some company (based out of washington state) decided that they don't want you runnign that old one. They want you to buy the new one.
<0> And bang. You hit a wall of the trap.
<0> Free software isn't like that. Free software (remember: free means freedom. Not cost) has the source code available. For me. For you. For whoever needs it.
<0> And you have the choice to keep it up to date yourself.
<8> imho even win98 not supported today
<7> You also need a pony tail to develop free software.
<0> xptek: That's not true.
<7> jblack: It is.
<4> Heh. I'm also trying to find information about that cl***-action lawsuit against microsoft, because microsoft made it hard to install some games (which they had one similar that they wanted yout to buy)
<7> jblack: Every open source developer has a small pony tail somewhere on his/her body.
<7> jblack: I have studies.
<0> that must be fdsa again.
<4> ...owned >.>
<0> kb3ocf: I don't remember a suit regarding games.
<0> The big one, the anti-trust suit, was the department of justice vs. microsoft.
<4> I thought there was, but I could be mistaken (which could explain my lack of finding information)
<0> The department of justice was winning ,and winning big.
<0> Then bush came into office, and the DOJ gave in.
<4> -_-
<0> yeah. IT was like kicking someone in the balls... looking at them on the ground crying...
<0> and saying "Oh man! You win"
<4> lol, really... I want to see the downfall of Microsoft as much as anyone else about now
<4> Microsoft really has been falling lately, I mean, the Zune was a flop, and it looks like Vista will be as well
<4> Anybody know Bill Gate's net worth?
<4> Ah, found it.. about $25.24 billion >.>
<9> Microsoft is _slightly and slowly_ declining at best. I doubt they will be in any serious threat in a decade or two
<4> \o/
<10> xpex : dejavu
<9> This is so depressing, my apartment is getting empty :(
<9> getting ready to move across the globe!
<11> "sweet"
<4> Cognition, where are you moving to\from?
<10> Cognition: where to ?
<9> all the way from PA USA -> Kuwait
<9> hopefully, i'll be back here in a couple of months
<10> oh
<9> just not in the mood to go back to all of the bull**** in the middle east
<10> you could pay Al-Ashtar a visit then
<9> uh-huh perhaps
<9> I never thought i'd say this, but i'm going to miss this place a LOT
<10> holiday/ business trip ?
<9> kind of a long holiday
<9> until grad school starts
<10> you can still get connected in kuwait
<9> of course, i'm not going to a remote village in Africa!
<10> when will you be goin ?
<9> around the end of the month
<12> how to specify different public ip addresses for different computers in a network ?
<9> I have to ship my stuff, close all accounts and all bills, and clear everything out
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