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Comments:
<0> and the dancing monkey
<1> advertisements, support, monopoly
<2> RaZorro: people get fed up
<2> thats what happened to me
<3> MS it trying hard to keep it's business.. they are going to new area in the market and cloning everything
<3> it's not easy on them anymore
<4> Cancel: i disagree, the market was not even established then, now we have a market with a monopolizing company, so the argument of time is not really convincing to me.
<1> lol, well yea, most people aren't very computer savvy though
<2> I had one crash too many at some poin in time I said enough is enough
<2> RaZorro: everyone has a breaking point
<1> well yea, but the average joe has never even heard fo the word "linux"
<2> Cognition: well take when the market was established and other folks in the industry that rose in their fields
<4> i just see Microsoft way too dominant to let go of the desktop market, in every sense, availability, ease of use, application development, and more
<2> Cognition: so ya dont wash
<2> Cognition: but thats what they want you to think and see ;)
<2> they want you locked in with that though
<4> if anything, hey, i feel like i belong to a special group of users :)
<2> even they though dont believe that
<2> which if you look at some of their special task groups you knw that
<4> Cancel: no, it's not what i see, it is reality
<2> heck teh fullpage linux TCO ads tell you that
<2> now thats reality
<4> Cancel: you're talking about dominance on every aspect
<2> if even M$ believed what you said they wouldnt need those
<4> 1) applications are still all developed on Windows
<0> wait till people can't "install" office anymore... and have to pay subscription fees to keep access to their data
<2> Cognition: I didnt mention every aspect hjeck i didnt mention any
<2> nivek: thats coming
<4> 2) Many web pages are still specifically developed for IE
<1> ugh, i want to reformat and start up with linux and dual booting but i'm not looking forward to spending like 4 hours downloading windows updates
<2> and I remember when the office competiive upgrade was $49
<0> I'd say that will be the final straw for a lot
<2> how many of you all can remember that
<5> fwbuilder 2.1 rocks, for iptables and pix
<4> 3) Ease of use, which linux would probably never match
<2> Cognition: actually most arent
<4> 4) unified interface (good and bad)
<2> m0ee: just learn iptables
<5> I know it, but I love the checkpoint gui
<2> Cognition: you havent tried the latest suse desktop
<5> fwbuilder is very very close
<2> Cognition: or read what most of the industry has said about it in those same mags you see the two page linux tco ads by m$
<4> 5) Market weight and the belief that (free is bad)
<5> I have a few servers with around 100-200 rules
<5> doing that from command line ****s
<2> do you not get network word , cso, and such?
<2> m0ee: you honestly shouldnt need 200 rules
<4> and there are other reasons
<2> means your rules are poorly written
<5> they have to be fine grained
<2> m0ee: and thing called scripts
<5> the box has about 30-40 routes
<5> different networks
<5> some need this
<5> some that
<2> m0ee: ya dont need iptables to route
<5> or ranges
<5> thats why so many rules
<6> i'm off to play maple story .. later guys
<5> I have to fine tine some full networks, others ranges of hosts
<2> if you have 200 rules i'llb et your rules are sloppy
<4> Cancel: i agree that linux is growing, but we're comparing it to windows! in the desktop market
<4> Forget it
<4> no way
<5> I cant just block full ranges
<5> max there is maybe 120 currently
<1> lol, ok i'm off to redo everything
<2> Cognition: in the past i'd say so but as I said even m$ doesnt believe that again hence their 2 page linux ads
<2> Cognition: and with bill gone from the helm....
<1> next tim ei'm on here, i'll be on linux
<5> some used to have 200 then we started grouping em in variables etc in scripts
<4> the best we can do is maybe maybe 10-15% of the desktop market, MAYBE
<2> Cognition: so bottom line even M$ doesnt believe that
<1> ...hopefully
<2> that shoudl tell you something
<2> m0ee: sure you can as your defaul policies should be drop to begin wtih else you are already allowing
<5> fwbuilder it is really simple, and quick to create a group then add networks, ranges to it as needed
<2> m0ee: so you maybe need a basic understanding of hwo the netfilter works
<4> Cancel: so what if bill goes away? Microsoft isn't bill, he's just a good businessman, not some kinda genius
<2> actuall it is
<5> I am redoing them all with fwbuilder now
<2> but thats another discussion
<5> ill keep doing pix from cmd for now
<2> m0ee: whatever works for ya
<5> check it out
<5> its really nice
<2> dont need to
<2> I wouldnt use it
<0> s/pix/asa
<2> I do mine by hand
<5> not on huge network with different hosts you wont
<2> actually I do
<5> it will take you all day to change a few rules
<2> heck especially then
<2> actually it wouldnt
<4> Cancel: and campaigns that Microsoft launches against linux are for the Server market, which they lose badly in anyway
<2> you really dont know how the netfilter works
<2> heck a gui actually takes longer
<4> but desktop, no way
<5> no
<2> as all your gui does is write the rule I can already type
<5> alot faster once you configure your objects
<2> we call that a script here
<2> ya heard of vi
<4> which as i said, is something that i don't mind a lot, i like to feel like i belong to a group of smart geeky people anyway
<2> Cognition: you will never belong ;)
<5> yeah thats the long way I will stick with the gui, I already learned the vi way
<5> my home firewall i woudl not bother either
<2> m0ee: some folks need guis
<2> no shame in that
<5> but 500+ hosts mainly gateways
<5> yeah
<4> Cancel: no comment on that, your ego is overdone :)
<2> use what works for you
<2> Cognition: dont get bent out of shape I added a ;) for you
<5> I have loads of iptables fws on nokia IP platforms
<5> they rock
<2> m0ee: you just dont know about me and iptables
<2> hehehe
<2> you're new here
<5> heh
<5> your nuts if you do that many from vi
<5> insane cli
<2> easy
<2> and honestly you shouldnt have to be changing your firewall all the time
<2> it should be mostly set and monitor
<2> if you are always hving to change stuff your setup was sloppy and wrong to begin with
<5> man this is huge network of managed boxes
<5> customers always change this and that
<2> I dont care how big it is
<5> specially half is r& d guys
<2> in fact the bigger it is the less you should be havin to change it
<2> means you didnt plan properly
<5> there always ok change this host to this host on these services
<2> or implement properly
<5> i did not implement
<5> ever start job and get stuck with someone elses headache?
<2> well this is real easy
<2> I deny everything
<2> then I explicitly allow
<5> default deny
<5> allow as you go
<5> then a cleanup
<5> yeah
<5> I know
<2> and trusted interfaces allow other trusted interfaces
<5> I did not write all these
<7> Clean up? WTF is that?
<2> and doesnt mattr if you have 500+ host
<5> clean up rule
<2> things on the lan dont p*** through the firewall
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