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Comments:
<0> there's no source.
<1> The XGL needs the source of the driver..?
<2> the reason why AIGLX started is because XGL has this problem of depending on available drivers, however, XGL is 100% free and open source, and it does not make any specific calls to any proprietary software, it calls ONLY openGL
<3> For a variety of reasons. Once, it defeats the purpose of using free software in the first place. Two, your kernel and system isn't supported by the linux kernel team (and this channel), third, if there's a a problem, debugging is impossible.
<3> Proprietary drivers in ring 0 are verbotem. They can scribble all over memory and aren't peer reviewable.
<1> But the drivers from ATi/nVidia still performs better than open alternatives, right?
<2> the_ruthless: open alternatives do not even support 3D rendering (yet)
<1> Cognition: that's kinda scary, actually.
<3> They undoubtedly perform better.
<2> the_ruthless: however, both XGL and AIGLX make calls to OpenGL
<3> But those drivers are sitting in a priviledged area and can read every single byte of memory.
<3> That's not safe.
<2> the_ruthless: the problem is that OpenGl itself then needs to communicate with the graphics card using a proprietary Device Driver (or any driver it can find)
<2> so, the only problem is that we do not have open device drivers, however, from a modular programming perspective, not a single line of code would change should you have open source drivers, you only remove one and put the other one in place
<1> This is indeed interesting.
<3> Yup. Its not xgl itself. Its that the hardware companies currently make it impossible to use xgl as free software
<1> jblack: as the theory is "not safe", is it unsafe in real life?
<3> in real life.
<1> What could it possibly do?
<3> In the case nvidia's drivers, taking down the system isn't rare. You can google for it.
<1> Oh. Sounds bad.
<3> But a kernel driver can literally do anything at all.
<3> The code is running in real mode, not protected memory.
<1> So the scene needs some teams to hack drivers for hardware they know nothing about at superspeed?
<0> I seem to recall Xorg7 encourages drivers to be moved into userspace, that would be nice.
<3> Something like that. But those two companies won't release specs for their hardware that would allow for drivers to be written.
<2> nVidia employs a bunch of bastards
<2> the_ruthless: unfortunately, when it comes to hardware, the only way to write device drivers is through reverse engineering without the specifications
<3> ati generally makes less mistakes. But both are known for trading off safety and reliability for better frame rates.
<2> the_ruthless: therefore, we will never have a good device driver unless nVidia wishes it, and they definitely don't
<1> Does XGI have open sourced drivers?
<3> XGL itself is fine. Its free software. Its dependant upon hardware that is only interfacable with proprietary drivers though.
<1> Not XGL, XGI.
<1> http://www.xgitech.com/
<3> I don't watch that platform.
<1> I am interested in trying it if I get the chance. Something else than nVidia would be nice.
<3> There is an older free software driver for nvidia cards. I don't know much about it.
<3> You can use any driver in vesa mode if you're willing to forgo opengl. That lets you escape proprietary drivers
<1> The main problem with the XGI cards is that they aren't available...
<2> the_ruthless: i personally won't use nVidia, However, there are (i think a few) open source drivers for other 3D accelerated video cards
<4> Cognition: why not?
<1> I prefer nVidia to ATi, and then there aren't really that many contemporary alternatives left.
<2> the_ruthless: XGL does not require any cards, XGL only talks with OpenGL
<2> OpenGL in return, talks to the kernel, using any available 3D driver
<1> XGL is the desktop thing. XGI is a manufacturer of 3D cards.
<2> so, XGL is free, OpenGL is free, Driver is closed
<2> oh, XGI
<2> got ya
<1> Yeah, I know it's a little confusing, with the naming and all... :D
<2> the problem is, at some point, we MUST MUST MUST have 3D open device drivers, otherwise, we won't be able to compete with anything
<1> My point is that with basicly S3 and XGI as the only other manufacturers of 3D cards... They're smaller, and could win much market share if they had open drivers.
<3> Well, if you can convince ati and nvidia to open up... they're the trend setters
<1> ...and if their cards where available in shops.
<1> I'd be guessing that Intel's drivers also are closed.
<3> They may be open. You'd have to check.
<2> this boils down to the old open hardware debate, because if the hardware is also close sourced, then we will never have a say about it
<3> There is free software support for older radeon cads.
<5> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1107718846402135656&q=eagle+eyed+cherry
<2> Routermen: LOL that's hilarious
<2> lots of wasted Diet Coke though :)
<5> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3258368851377796496&q=genre%3Acomedy
<5> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7640816139996230119&q=google+earth&auto=true <---- omg this one is stupidly funny
<2> Routermen: what's funny about that one? it's a touch screen presentation
<5> i forgot the files names to which we set a permanent values for /proc 's
<5> errr
<5> Cognition : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7640816139996230119&q=google+earth&auto=true <-- this one ?
<6> is this a channel where newbies are encouraged to ask the experts questions about how to configure linux?
<7> sure
<6> ok - so my problem is i cant get wlan0 up on my mepis linux
<6> i have a dual boot and the wireless is ok in winxp
<6> lspci lists my wireless adapter
<6> but but ndiswrapper -l does not say it finds thw hw
<6> but the driver seems to be there
<8> KJots refuses to erase a page. I can erase the content. I can rename the page. but when I erase the page and restart it, the page is there. Anyone ?
<6> when i click 'start wlan0' in kde it just says operation failed.
<6> any ideas?
<2> cullen: lspci does not shows the hardware, not the driver, just because you can see the hardware does not mean that the driver is installed
<2> <correct> lspci shows hardware
<6> yeh, it shows up in lspci
<6> i was trying to use ndiswrapper to use the windows driver.
<2> cullen: paste the exact name of the hardware you got from lspci
<6> heh - of course i am using the windows side of my dual boot to chat here, because i cant get online with my linux side
<2> cullen: ok, then get that name
<2> google for it
<6> just get my driver name out of device manager?
<2> try more than one combo for the google string, and you may endup (probably will endup) with a local device driver
<6> it is bcmwl5.sys
<2> no, don't do that
<2> get the name from lspci
<2> if you google the name from the device manager, you endup with a bunch of drivers for windows
<6> ok - google the hardware as it appears in lspci, and look for a linux driver in the results
<2> exactly
<2> good luck with finding your driver
<6> then how do i install it once found
<2> cullen: what distro do you have?
<6> mepis
<2> ok, then you use dpkg i ***ume
<6> ok but just install it as if it were any other piece of software - you dont have to do anything special because it is a device diver?
<2> cullen: yes you do
<2> cullen: but, if you can find a binary package, it will do it all for you
<2> cullen: otherwise, you need to upload the module using lsmod
<2> i'm sorry, using insmod
<2> or modprobe
<6> how can i see whether or not a wireless driver is installed right now?
<2> on the otherhand, if you find the package, you just install it, and it will automatically plug the device driver module into your kernel
<2> cullen: lsmod
<2> pipe grep for the name you're looking for
<6> ok cool, i'm going to have to reboot now and check some of this out, thanks for the help.
<2> sure thing, best of luck
<9> anyone can recommend a PCI WIFI card brand or model which is compatible(built-in driver) with linux?
<2> jckey: i found this -> http://users.linpro.no/janl/hardware/wifi.html
<2> scroll down and you will see a good list
<10> hi, Simmy
<11> imbang ~_~
<9> Cognition: Thanks for the information.
<3> Bleh. This free wireless at the library is aweful. The only way I can get out of their network is through tor.
<12> You get what you pay for.
<13> I can't login to dalnet when i run " Squid "
<14> Configure it better.
<13> The squid?
<14> I run squid and I'm on DALnet.
<13> It's configured as well
<13> is it working in transperant way?
<14> I can run it either way. I normally have it set transparent so the clients don't have to configure their web browser to use it.
<13> i'm doing the same
<13> but can't login to dalnet after i forward all the router ports to the server
<14> Sounds like misconfiguration to me.
<14> I don't have any trouble with it. Do you use the squid for more than just a web proxy?
<13> only web proxy
<13> i was able to login dalnet before i forward the rouer ports to the server
<14> Do you have full static routing to get your connections back out to the internet?
<13> yes
<15> Portugal to the semi finals
<13> p3nguin, no prob i'll have to remove squid
<2> oh hell, england lost
<14> That sounds like a crappy way out. I would prefer to make it work as opposed to remove it.
<14> Have you checked any mailing lists or news groups for a similar problem?
<13> p3nguin, do you think if the iptables case the problem? i have forward all the ports to 8080
<13> not really
<14> Yes. I think that is the problem.
<13> i post in debian-administration site and they didn't replay tell now
<13> ok i'll show you my iptables settings
<16> where
<2> Dino: don't paste here, paste in a pastebin (just in case you don't know)
<13> Cognition, i know :) thanks
<15> my eyes
<2> Al-Ashtar: what's wrong with'em :)
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