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Comments:
<0> for adblocking...
<0> and it took us a while to figure out what scalar said, that it was simply never called. period
<0> but yah... <3 Windows docs
<1> hmm.. i can't find objbase.h, which is included by d3d9.h. i moved a project over from VC 2003 to VC 2005 Express and found that my Additional Include Directories had become blank. i had to add the Include\ dir for DX's SDK
<1> any advice?
<0> I always felt like the Linux APIs were very archaic
<0> maybe that feeling was really just a lack of documentation
<2> octothorpe: Install the Platform SDK?
<2> The one which ships with VC is often ****ty, in unexpected ways, for unfathomable reasons.
<2> It's a Microsoft tradition.
<3> the one on the web is weird too
<3> by now it's hard to find WinAPI documentation
<3> it's all .NET
<4> well it depends on which Linux APIs you're talking about
<4> the bottom ones ARE archaic
<2> ...and the top ones are simply designed to appear baroque, to fit in?
<3> haha
<4> hahaha
<0> hmmm
<0> so what do you guys think
<0> when a user deletes something in a GUI
<0> should the program prompt to confirm?
<4> What do you guys think of ReactOS?
<0> wasn't that discontinued?
<4> ... I hope not
<0> oh, maybe I'm thinking of EROS
<4> it was going pretty strong for a long time
<2> xiph: you should read flow|state
<0> I'm reading some GUI book that scalar lent me
<0> it argues programs should not question the user
<4> it seems halfway decent and works better than Wine
<0> but, as a power user, I am uncomfortable with any un-undoable action not prompting :/
<3> does it argue not prompting even if it is not undoable?
<0> it's too easy to accidentally click a menu item, or have a window pop out at you
<2> http://miksovsky.blogs.com/flowstate/2006/02/some_basic_ui_p.html
<0> scalar, I think the book you lent me does, yes
<3> I thought it argued everything should be undoable (at least for some time)
<0> I forgot that section now...
<0> but I'm pretty sure it says not to question the user in that way
<0> File->Delete
<3> http://miksovsky.blogs.com/flowstate/2006/02/some_basic_ui_p.html
<0> "Are you sure you want to delete?"
<3> of course not, because files go to the recycle bin, right? :)
<0> not in this case :P
<3> they should
<0> not possible
<3> why not?
<0> I'm working with the S3 API
<0> if I want to simulate undo, I can download the whole file to the local machine
<3> save it to a temporary database
<0> what if the file's 2 GB?
<0> I can't cache that for undo
<0> if I execute a delete on the file, it's gone from S3
<0> I can't allow undo, because the only operation is to download the file :(
<3> just make them appear as deleted?
<0> hmmm
<0> that's a good idea
<3> you don't actually carry out the actions
<3> you superimpose them on the old file
<3> after a few actions, you actually commit them
<0> well, in this circumstance I'm interacting with a web-based database
<0> but yeah, that's a good idea
<0> I can cache a set of actions then allow "Commit"
<0> and I can have an option for auto-commit after every action if users want
<3> :)
<0> hmm
<0> if I had a copy function, I could do that
<0> copy the data to a hidden backup, then delete that for real later on
<0> don't think S3 has that, though
<0> hmmm
<0> I might actually instead just allow undo of the last operation
<0> and 'commit' on the /next/ action
<0> but that might lure users into a false sense of security, like they have with word
<0> thinking they can just delete whatever and get it back later. I know I do that with text editors all the time
<2> Just move it to a damn recycle bin and let people purge it when they actually want the space.
<0> what was that code a second ago before I changed it? c-Z c-Z c-Z c-Z c-Z c-Z c-Z c-Z ... ahhhh, ok, c-Y c-Y c-Y c-Y c-Y c-Y c-Y c-Y c-Y
<0> Rethguals, the problem with this is that any such recycle bin is an artifact of the program and can't be easily stored on the service
<0> as such, if you delete something, you have to purge or undo before the program closes for the behavior to be understandable
<2> The service doesn't support hierarchy?
<0> because the changes won't be visible to other programs
<0> hierarchy of what sort?
<0> S3 inherently is a key/value database. so no
<2> Ah.
<0> buckets contain objects. an object is uniquely identified by a string key.
<0> that's all you get
<0> er, uniquely within its bucket
<0> so you can build one if you wanted
<0> I actually thought it might be interesting to implement the Berkelely DB API by making S3 calls instead
<0> not all of it would be implementable, especially any transaction stuff involving isolation.. but ...
<2> I've never seen the BDB API, but I don't imagine it's interesting :)
<0> it's not interesting
<0> but it is the base of a lot of other systems
<0> Amazon uses it extensively... SVN is based on it...
<0> I think InnoDB uses it at a lower level
<2> Yeah, but it's already damn slow.
<0> from what I understand, a lot of more sophisticated databases are implemented-in-terms-of a key/value database structure.
<0> Amazon isn't slow :(
<0> let's see you do better :p
<2> Subversion uses it and runs really badly, getting wedged at every opportunity. I use fsfs and avoid BDB crap :/
<0> well, in my experience at Amzn it was very fast
<0> if Subversion is slow I think it's for other reasons..
<0> I thought BDB was supposed to be fast.. but I've never profiled it or anything
<0> just what I've heard randomly
<2> Amazon are in a position that demands genericity and can invest in hardware and maintenance. Most other systems would benefit from a more specialised store.
<0> yah
<0> amazon just ***umes some % of hardware will fail and fights it with numbers rather than uh ... any other algorithmic guarantee
<2> BDB's mainly popular because you can link it in with your code and it doesn't need swathes of pre-existing configuration.
<0> same as google
<0> but most other companies I have worked with don't have the machine to say "well, we just keep 5 copies of everything for redundancy"
<0> heh
<0> machines*
<2> Personally, I would always prefer SQLite, MSDE, or even mysql.
<1> actions with disasterous and/or invisible consequences should prompt, unless the user is holding shift
<0> MSDE => SQL Server Express now eh?
<1> whoops. damn scrollbar
<0> bah. shift in explorer still prompts, it just does a different thing
<1> yeah, i don't like that
<2> Xiphoris, I don't know, but I thought MSDE, SQL Server Express and SQL Server Embedded were all different products.
<1> shift + "Yes" often means "Yes to all"
<1> i think shift+deleting in windows explorer, i think it should send something to the recycle bin without prompting
<1> deleting something entirely could involve a different modifier key, just as ctrl, or ctrl+shift
<0> yah, I agree about the sending to recycle bin without prompting
<0> especially all of those stupid prompts you never care about like "OMG ITS TEH SYSTEMZ FIEL!!"
<1> yeah that dialog needs another option "Yes", "Yes to All", and "Yes to All, Always"
<1> [x] never ask me this stupid question again
<0> [ ] Show system files should have a co-option or sub option, Treat like normal files
<1> mmm, good call
<0> [ ] Don't ask me stupid ****
<1> oh, and why is Thumbs.db a system file? isn't hidden good enough?
<0> ( Out of stupid mode ) <-- button
<0> hmmm
<0> I think whether it's hidden should be configurable somehow
<1> nah, that's fine. i think you can ask to see hidden files
<0> well, it's obviously a system file
<1> it's just that that file is often the reason a "delete system file" dialog comes up
<0> IMO... so it being system is OK with me :P
<0> right
<2> What does it mean to be a system file anyway? It's a stupid concept.
<1> wait, i retract that. i'm fixing the wrong problem
<0> hmmm, yeah. perhaps there should be no system, only hidden
<3> Rethguals: it's a hack to fix a broken OS
<1> interesting question. i would expect system files would go in the \system directory
<0> but even then
<0> why have a "hidden"?
<2> scalar: that's true. The OS was DOS.
<0> there's no reason to "hide" things from users. there's only "invisible system stuff in the background about which users dont care"
<1> i like hidden. it lets people who have no interest in doing anything interesting concentrate on 3 or less things at a time
<0> we could do all of it without filesystem flags in the first place.
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