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Comments:
<0> Zenethian: lol
<0> Zenethian: i guess only if you tell them the source where you got it
<1> whythehell: No, the ick is the file format I have to use if I want to use this svdpackc software.
<2> because XP won't update properly without a proper key. Better to get the XPs with holes off the market
<3> cehteh: nope, you just fill out your info and a credit card number.
<3> yeah
<3> cuz I just tried it. lol
<1> Hmmm. What counts as a hacked CD key?
<1> One in multiple use, or one found by brute force or?
<2> one that can't p*** the Microsoft Genuine Software test
<3> Actually it's funny, I did actually get this from a company
<3> lol
<3> of course I was really just trying to trick them into seeing if they'd give out hacked XP numbers
<3> and one finally did
<3> haha
<3> they said they were a "MS authorized internet key reseller"
<3> haha
<1> Ehz?
<3> it was some ****ty computer store
<3> on the south side of san antonio, tx
<3> I traded like, some old PC hardware for a XP key
<3> lol
<4> ...but, it shouldn't be cheaper to buy Windows if you've stolen it previously. That's just ****ing dumb.
<3> turned out to be fake.
<3> yeah
<3> Well, they way they look at it is: You either sell it to them cheaper to entice them to buy it, or they just still keep using it anyway.
<4> The only non-retarded option is to make security updates freely available. My understanding is that they are.
<4> Well, making windows cheaper or free is also non-retarded.
<2> The updates are free... but for reasons that escape me, a crackedkey XP won't patch properly
<2> and... some programs won't install properly... Windows Defender, for example, won't install on a cracked XP. I have no idea why they did that. Thankfully, Office doesn't care
<3> heh
<5> Rethguals around?
<4> He is.
<5> is it correct to say that a reference must always refer to a valid object, else the program is ill-formed?
<4> Yes.
<5> cool. I'll include that in my recommendation then :)
<4> Need a reference? (if you'll pardon the pun)
<5> if you have the S# memorized, sure
<5> I'm a bit unfamiliar of what it means for a program to be ill-formed (vs. illegal)
<5> it compiles but has undefined behavior?
<4> No. It's optional whether the program compiles.
<4> In practice, of course, the compiler would need to prove whether that code executes with conditions that make it illegal.
<5> (check your PMs)
<5> I'll bbiab
<5> thanks for the advice
<2> I was explaining to him in PM that I manage over 60 computers for a company, so I've seen quite a few things in there... 3 XPs, 1 95, the rest Win2K and DOS
<2> o wait, there's 2 98's as well... thankfully no ME
<2> I'm fascinated by this Deal or No Deal... possibly because I watch it and have absolutely zero idea what's going on
<1> Keneto: It's not that hard.
<2> they pick cases with no visible pattern... people stand to the side of the stage with no apparent purpose other than to confound the participant
<2> they have a phone on the desk when the guy could probably accomplish the same thing with a small remote
<2> utterly fascinating
<1> Oh yes. There's absolutely *nothing* going on.
<4> wth: Ah. I've seen that and not understood either.
<4> How are they playing, and what is the objective?
<6> contestant chooses a case to begin with. Proceeds by choosing to reveal the value in some of the other cases. At various stages the 'bank' makes an offer - the contestant can walk away with that amount, or keep playing (either to try to get a higher offer, or the value in the case they have)
<6> if they reveal cases with higher values, the chance of them having a high value in their case goes down (there are known amounts in the cases), so the bank's offer goes down
<6> roughly anyway. I wouldn't mind analysing the banks offers to try to see the logic to it.
<2> I see them choose a case and it has $1000 in it. They seem happy. They select a case for $100 000 and they seem equally happy. To me, one of those should be a disappointment
<6> I'm not sure if the Deal or no Deal in other countries have a different set of values in the cases - generally selecting the higher valued cases is bad
<6> but it depends what's out there - if there's just 100k & 200k, removing the 100k case is great
<2> they select cases based on specious reasons like the prettiness of the girl holding it
<4> ...but then what?
<4> I mean, I don't understand.
<6> Rethguals: either they take the case they chose to begin with, or they settle for the bank's offer somewhere along the way.
<4> By what you've explained, surely the bank's highest offer should be before the game starts?
<6> not necessarily - if by random selection they remove all the lower cases, the offer will be high
<4> So someone can select the 100k case and just think, "Ta!"
<4> ...but if they remove none of the cases, why isn't it higher still?
<6> The bank has the same public information the user has. They don't know which denominations are where. At least that's my understanding.
<6> Because the average value is low.
<4> When does the game end?
<6> the user, I mean player, takes the bank's offer or reveals all cases and takes the case they started with.
<4> So basically the banks offers have to be higher than the player's first box?
<6> as you progress, you reveal less cases between each offer I tihnk.. so to begin with you might choose 4 cases before having the option to take the bank's offer (so the risk remains roughly the same - choosing 4 from 20 and eventually choosing 1 from 5 etc..)
<6> no - it's all based on uncertainty. Neither the player nor the bank know what values are in the boxes.
<6> Until the player chooses which boxes (other than her own) to reveal.
<6> Player reveals a few, bank recalculates the risk, makes an offer.
<4> Oh... the player doesn't know what they start with?
<6> right
<4> I thought you meant the box they chose to open first.
<4> Which was making no sense at all.
<6> indeed.
<2> hrmm, so whatever is in the case you chose first is what you go home with, even if that's $3?
<6> Their first choice is a box that is not opened until the end of the game.
<6> Keneto: if you don't take the bank's offer
<4> So really, there's no point in choosing it first?
<4> It's basically the box you choose last.
<4> Well, that you don't choose.
<2> LOL
<6> perhaps you get to the end game where there 's 3, 100000, 200000 still unaccounted for - the possible value of your case is rather high, on average it's 100001 - so the bank's offer will probably be correspondingly high.
<6> Rethguals: True enough - it could be simply chosen by elimination.
<6> When hte last box is left standing - the offer (well, no offer is made, but in a sense) matches exactly the amount in that box - there is no longer any risk.
<6> Until then, there's uncertainty.
<4> I see.
<4> I know what whythehell meant about absolutely nothing going on.
<2> I understand too but my head hurts
<6> Rethguals: yeah, Millionaire without the silly questions - but still with all teh hype.
<4> Well, not really. Millionaire is basically a knowledge-based game.
<6> I wouldn't mind someone going on there with a calculator and actually computing the risk/reward, comparing it to the bank's offer, etc.. trying to apply some kind of system to the game rather than just all that silly talk that goes on.
<6> I meant in terms of the risks of cashing out, using life-lines, and the hype the presenters tend to push into the game.
<4> Well, how many boxes are there?
<6> but yes - in essence it has some skill to it. I've yet to see anyone explicitly apply reasoning to Deal or no Deal
<6> 21 I think.
<6> I don't know the denominations. In Australia hwen I last saw it the top values were 100k and 200k.
<4> It can't be that hard to calculate Total divided by Boxes after ach step.
<6> the bottom values are 1, 5, 10. Then various things in between
<6> It isn't. The only logic you could apply to the game would be pretty simple.
<6> I still wonder about the bank. I guess it has an element of randomness involved to try to make the game interesting.
<4> How do they manage to find players that don't just open the boxes in succession?
<6> If it were just making purely calculated decisions (the only one you could make would be total/boxes) it wouldn't be quite as exciting.
<6> Rethguals: Good question..
<6> I suppose those are really the only two variables: case value ordering & bank offer values.
<6> I wonder if they are truely random (well the bank offer is at least influenced by the current game state) or planned in some way.
<4> I mean, this game sounds really crap. There's absolutely no point to doing anything, except deciding whether to accept or reject an offer, which really should be based on fairly simple arithmetic.
<6> Yep, that about sums it up.
<2> and ***umingthe offers are based of simple probablility, the highest average risk-offer ratio is around case ten
<4> How do you figure?
<2> well, ***uming even distribution. past case ten, you are eliminating possible high-value results rather than gaining
<2> ***uming the bank banks on that, their offers should drop... now as Z says, if the cases left are $3, $100K, $200K then you have better ofdds if you keep playing
<4> Well, if you were playing completely blind, that would make sense.
<2> but if the cases left are $5 and $100k, then your best chance in long-term betteting will probably be with the bank, who will want to offer slightly more than the average
<4> Well, under those circumstances, I would offer less than the average. I mean, the risk of the box being low-valued is highest.
<4> Well, high.
<2> I know what you mean
<4> Er, well, that's not what I mean. I mean that given a choice of 50k or taking a chance, sane people would choose 50k.
<2> you the bank should offer low... but IMHO you want to offer high because you have all these tricks in the show to guarantee they'll p*** on your offer, which will anger viewers like us who can be called "sane". Angry viewers are excited viewers and therefore watch the show which is to them a circus of stupid people
<2> lol
<4> http://www.tinbergen.nl/discussionpapers/06009.pdf
<2> this paper does ***ume rationality on the part of the contestant
<4> I don't think it does.
<4> I mean, the conclusions are based on actual data from the Dutch and Austrailian versions.
<2> k
<4> //"
<4>
<4> Oh, for ****'s sake.
<4> Acrobat is lame at copying.
<6> Keneto: I wonder what their viewer profile is like - how many angry 'sane' people.. I wouldn't expect the count to be very high
<4> It's in the paper :)
<2> heh... Haven't reached that part of the paper... I don't get the show here... I can only watch it in a bar
<2> in the bar, I see they yell at the contestants to take the deal, but the contestants, seem to realize that taking the deal won't fill a 1-hour show
<4> That's hardly the contestants fault.
<4> s/fault/problem
<4> The show could always keep playing.
<2> I'd love to do on Survivor and be allowed to bring my chemistry set. I could be like the professor from Gilligan's island
<2> *paper also mentions that the bank makes offers above the mean (page 4 paragraph 2) nice
<7> Are all grammars that have a conflict in their predictive parsing table ambiguous?
<4> xhirl-com: no. It depends on the type of parser (and the amount of lookup, for LL/LR parsers)
<7> umm? can you give me a counter-example?
<7> everyone else says that it is
<4> Well, you can't decide which of two non-terminals "E ::= E + E" and "E ::= E - E" to use if you only have one token lookahead.
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